Is it possible electric rates can go down with oil crash?

[Atari2600]

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Some people say they're paying x for electricity and they are only saying x as generation when there may also be a delivery charge which is the other half.

Under PECO in Philly PA area I'm paying $0.0575/kWh for generation, $0.06505 for distribution, $9.98 customer charge $0.05 "charge" charge (?!). Comes out to about $0.12825/kWh, no tiers, no off peaks no monthly fees.

My Duke Energy Ohio is
$ 0.052 for distribution
$ 0.047 for generation

I wonder why distribution charges are higher than generation charges? Seems backwards to me. I wonder if the states require these guy to make reports on what they bring in vs. spend on distribution charges?

 

[jjrandorin]

I am still kind of chuckling at the Op complaining that "19.5" is "high" for electricity pricing. Maybe it is to a lot of people but in here in CA that price would be pretty cheap (off peak pricing for most is much higher than that, let alone on peak pricing).

Never seen the overall electricity rate go down as long as I have been paying it here in southern california, with the exception of when I installed solar (so I pay less). SCE (southern california edison) is not quite as bad as Pacific Gas and Electric, and San Diego Gas and Electric, but its close (and rates people can get now are only time of use rates, with on peak in the 40c range).

 

[SlimJim]

How about free electricity instead of universal income?
It is more realistic than universal income.

 

[KenC]

Check with your power company. In Maine, we have a PUC, public utilities commission, that sets the rate for 6 months. Because, it's a utility, they don't let the rates just free float, the pricing would be too volatile for the public. Remember what happened in California when Enron was holding back electricity, spiking prices?

Anyhow, check with your utility to find out the composition of your energy. In Maine, we use all renewables, so no hydrocarbons, so no benefit from cheaper oil.

 

[Atari2600]

How about free electricity instead of universal income?
It is more realistic than universal income.

How about free solar and powerwalls. If it's an apartment complex the same deal can be made with them. Maybe make some big green deal or something.

 

[North75]

I pay $0.23/kwh here in eastern massachusetts, so it could certainly be worse.
It's pretty much an even split between generation and delivery.

I've always wondered what drives that delivery cost so high. Is it really that much more expensive to distribute electricity in Massachusetts than Ohio? Is it because we don't have the big industrial users that other states have? I'm genuinely curious as it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. You would think a small relatively densely populated state would be cheaper than a big wide open one, but apparently not.

 

[21miDay]

There are some interesting graphs here: United States - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Real-time Operating Grid
One shows the energy source. I haven't found a way to view it by region but it may be possible.

Edit: Here is the New York region. United States - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) - Real-time Operating Grid

 

[mreynolds767]

I pay $0.23/kwh here in eastern massachusetts, so it could certainly be worse.
It's pretty much an even split between generation and delivery.

I've always wondered what drives that delivery cost so high. Is it really that much more expensive to distribute electricity in Massachusetts than Ohio? Is it because we don't have the big industrial users that other states have? I'm genuinely curious as it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. You would think a small relatively densely populated state would be cheaper than a big wide open one, but apparently not.

MA has some of the worst rates, and zero off peak or time differences.
Biggest problem is they passed a law that should have benefited the consumer but backfired.
The law allows us to buy the energy from different sources to prevent monopoly ; but the delivery is still a monopoly.
They took away the electricity purchase from the provider and they in turn increased the delivery charge.
Check you bill I imagine you like me are buying a rate for the electricity not from NStar/National Grid/Eversource but someone else and the company you pay is making their money on the delivery portion.

 

[wws]

As others have noted, the utility companies are generally highly regulated monopolies. IIRC, here in California the rates come under review by the State PUC every three years. Though they do have some incremental increases programmed in between reviews. This allows utilities to sign long term power generation contracts at reasonable cost. Thus short term fluctuations in natural gas prices and such don't have much effect at the ratepayer level.

We do now have what are called Community Choice Aggregators - which allow communities to band together and do bulk purchase of power. This can save a little on the 'generation' portion of the bill. In the case of my communities' CCA here in Silicon Valley (SVCE) it works out to about a $0.01/kWh savings over PG&E's contracted generation. For those of us who have solar on our rooftops, there are also some subtle differences in how net metering works.

 

[garth_angst]

It seem my rate on Long Island is 0.196512 cents per kWh, just like I wrote in the original post. But, I am a moron as the bill reads like a typical lawyer document. I don't know what rates are gobbled up in others. I give up. Anyone understand my bill?

I came up with my rate by adding 0.0827 for delivery, 0.092619 for power supply, 0.003826 for taxes and .017367 for utility debt mumbo jumbo. Am I wrong?

 

[P3dStealth]

It seem my rate on Long Island is 0.196512 cents per kWh, just like I wrote in the original post. But, I am a moron as the bill reads like a typical lawyer document. I don't know what rates are gobbled up in others. I give up. Anyone understand my bill?

I came up with my rate by adding 0.0827 for delivery, 0.092619 for power supply, 0.003826 for taxes and .017367 for utility debt mumbo jumbo. Am I wrong?

Just take what you paid and divide the kwh used. Our bills fluctuate they change the rate based on amount used.

 

[NOLADriver]

For most of you (who make me sick with your low electric rates) it probably doesn't make any difference, and I'm really tired of people assuming electric rates are low (not where I am), but could the crash in oil prices possibly lower electric rates?
Forgive my ignorance of how electric companies generate their power to supply to us, but here on Long Island, where I am paying over 19.5 cents per kWh, which is almost double and in some case tenfold times what others are paying and for some reason assume everyone else is paying too, I don't know if oil is a factor at all. I "think" when oil skyrocketed years ago, our electric rates went considerably higher. Any chance low oil prices trickle down to lower electric rates, either for the rate or delivery charge or whatever voodoo math they use to set price per kWh?

Wait till IPEC shuts down next year. It makes 34% of NY's power. Your bill is gonna be dramatically different. Thank your loony liberals.

 

[NOLADriver]

I am on long island also. We are mostly fuel oil gas turbine and fuel oil steam turbine. We literally have small power plants with jet engines scattered around that turn on and off with demand. We also have natural gas and internal combustion methane. We have no hydro. Very little nuclear we buy from a plant in Connecticut across the water.

Our bills include payments for a nuclear power plant that was built but not opened because of protesters. Now we have no nuclear plants on long island. They actually have a fuel oil turbine in shoreham now.

Decades later, Shoreham nuke plant sits empty

View attachment 540580

That pie chart must be Long Island only I assume. You are aware IPEC has two reactors in NY and supplies a huge amount of power to NY, right ?

 

[TomB985]

https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/coronavirus-2020-05-11?mod=article_inline&mod=hp_lead_pos7

 

[P3dStealth]

That pie chart must be Long Island only I assume. You are aware IPEC has two reactors in NY and supplies a huge amount of power to NY, right ?

It's only long island. Nassau and Suffolk County.

IPEC supplies something like 30% of NYC power.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

Wow, some of those rates on Long Island and Cali are just insane. I’m in South Carolina where we pay about 11.5 cents per kWh which isn’t great compared to some places (like Texas, very jealous of you guys) but better than others. Certainly makes it much cheaper to drive electric even with the currently low prices on gas and diesel.

Of course the flip side of lower power rates is there is a much longer payback period required to justify the install of home solar. For the OP and others paying close to or above 20 cents per kWh I would be looking very hard at home solar if you haven’t already. Another option is to vote with your feet and move out of higher cost areas.

 

[turns2stone]

Wow, some of those rates on Long Island and Cali are just insane. I’m in South Carolina where we pay about 11.5 cents per kWh which isn’t great compared to some places (like Texas, very jealous of you guys) but better than others. Certainly makes it much cheaper to drive electric even with the currently low prices on gas and diesel.

Of course the flip side of lower power rates is there is a much longer payback period required to justify the install of home solar. For the OP and others paying close to or above 20 cents per kWh I would be looking very hard at home solar if you haven’t already. Another option is to vote with your feet and move out of higher cost areas.

Reading these threads makes me reconsider any wild ideas I have about moving to other parts of the country

Selfishly, I hope rates don’t change much, as I just locked in a 3-year plan. With the base monthly fee, my per kWh rate comes out to ~$0.155. But that is peak rate only, 6am Mon-Fri 8pm.

From Friday 8pm to Monday 6am, my rate is literally $0.00 kWh. I am fastidious about only charging my car during this period, and only doing laundry on the weekends as well.

As such, my average kWh rate for the month hovers around $0.07-$0.08 kWh, and I am happy with that for the next 3 years. The cheapest fixed/flat rate I could find for my area was $0.10 kWh, so I’m pretty happy with this plan.

 

[Sandiegodoug]

thank god for solar in San Diego.

 

[viddy_well]

I would love to see our rates drop or have some viable option for ToU here with LADWP. You can see right where we added our M3 to the family on the month over month graph.

 

[TomB985]

I would love to see our rates drop or have some viable option for ToU here with LADWP. You can see right where we added our M3 to the family on the month over month graph.



View attachment 541104

Wow, some of these rates really surprise me.

What is the difference between tier 1 and tier 2? Is it time of day, or by total usage?