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For all the “Model 3 isn’t good for trips” assertions I sure see a lot of them when I drive on long trips. Definitely a lot more than Corvettes and large diesel trucks.
Over around 73,000 miles, my lifetime wh/mi is 267. And I don’t baby it. I am in Florida where the weather is mostly mild. Other that that I can’t imagine why there’d be such a disparity.When I was running 20s on my M3P, I'd get 340 wh/mi. I switched to 18s and i've been averaging around 295 wh/mi. Both PS4S tires. Wheel size makes a pretty big difference.
Over around 73,000 miles, my lifetime wh/mi is 267. And I don’t baby it. I am in Florida where the weather is mostly mild. Other that that I can’t imagine why there’d be such a disparity.
Without discussing exactly which tires you switched from and to (including size), it's not all that useful to discuss wheel size.The big surprise was when I switched wheels to an arachnid style 18 inch variant from T-sportline. I thought it shouldn't make much of a difference but its about 10-15% better which was surprising to me.
Both are PS4S and the 18 inch are stock size as were my 20sWithout discussing exactly which tires you switched from and to (including size), it's not all that useful to discuss wheel size.
I get way worse range on my 18" wheels than my stock 20's, but my 18" wheels are 2" wider with much more aggressive tires.
I think Tesla should offer an 18" wheel on the P. Maybe not the eco MXM tires but still something to get better efficiency than the 20.If you're getting 267 average on an M3P, you are doing way better than most. I typically drive 85-90mph on highways where I live but thats typical speed on the left lane in so-cal at certain times. Couple that with fast take offs and spirited canyon driving and its pretty easy to get 340wh/mi. The big surprise was when I switched wheels to an arachnid style 18 inch variant from T-sportline. I thought it shouldn't make much of a difference but its about 10-15% better which was surprising to me.
I think Tesla should offer an 18" wheel on the P. Maybe not the eco MXM tires but still something to get better efficiency than the 20.
Did you notice any other degradation in from your wheel change?
I really don't think that is what people are saying here. It is fine for long trips it is just a lot more cumbersome than a gas car for long trips, especially in the winter in states where it gets cold. Of course you, with a profile that says "Bay Area", see more Model 3 on road trips than Corvettes and large diesel trucks... the Model 3 outsells them both by large margins in California and the climate there is pretty conducive to driving an EV.For all the “Model 3 isn’t good for trips” assertions I sure see a lot of them when I drive on long trips. Definitely a lot more than Corvettes and large diesel trucks.
Why would you use the Tesla planner? Everyone knows it's not really optimal. Why wouldn't you use ABRP which is going to give you real-world data in its results. It's showing 12h7m, for a 2020 P3D-, driving the way I would which is about 8-10mph above the speed limit.I really don't think that is what people are saying here. It is fine for long trips it is just a lot more cumbersome than a gas car for long trips, especially in the winter in states where it gets cold. Of course you, with a profile that says "Bay Area", see more Model 3 on road trips than Corvettes and large diesel trucks... the Model 3 outsells them both by large margins in California and the climate there is pretty conducive to driving an EV.
Let me illustrate my point with a couple of screen shots. Say I want to take the family to Disney World and we feel like driving because we want to visit family in Georgia on the way. If I choose a generic zip code in my city and plan the route on the Tesla trip planner driving a P3D it says the trip will take 15 hours with 5 stops to supercharge.
View attachment 884118
If I put the same trip in Google maps it is 11h 20m. Realistically I'd bump that number up to 12.5h for two gas fill-ups, bathroom breaks, and food.
View attachment 884121
The 15h drive is doable, and maybe even a little more pleasant with the extra stops to stretch out and what not, but it is still 20% longer than the same trip in a gas car. Your margin for error is also much smaller in the Tesla. Superchargers can be full, charge rates can vary at some stations, and traffic, weather conditions or high speeds can use up range faster than anticipated requiring extra stops or longer stops to charge. None of those things are really issues in a gas car because there are gas stations every few miles but there are not superchargers every few miles.
I have been all EV since 2015 (previously had a Leaf), I am not anti-EV in any way. But people need to acknowledge the trade-offs especially on long trips and in areas with cold weather. So on trips like that I'd probably just take the wife's PHEV. It isn't the end of the world for me to admit that it is just easier, faster, and less stressful to do it that way.
That better route planner is fine but it cuts things a little close for my taste with the wife and kids in the car. I have no intention of running my battery down to ~10% consistently with my family with me.Why would you use the Tesla planner? Everyone knows it's not really optimal. Why wouldn't you use ABRP which is going to give you real-world data in its results. It's showing 12h7m, for a 2020 P3D-, driving the way I would which is about 8-10mph above the speed limit.View attachment 884199
With a family, frequent short stops is pretty much ideal. I don't have a Performance model, but I find my roadtrips take just about the same time. In Sept, I had to go to my University in Baltimore. It's over 600 miles and always took me 10hrs in my Saab, including my stops for bathroom, coffee/food, gas and leg stretching. I just did it in under 10hrs in my Model 3, stopping at literally all the same stops I made when I was in college.
For me, 60mph net speed, factoring in all the stops is what I averaged in my ICE, and it's what I average in my Tesla. For an 800 mile trip from Virginia Beach to Orlando, I'd figure anything under 13hrs is pretty standard.
Which is basically what this drive would be in a 3 performance. As @KenC notes, I too show roughly 5 stops with right around an hour charging; maybe slightly longer depending on speed, but no where near your 3 hours of charging from the Tesla website.If I put the same trip in Google maps it is 11h 20m. Realistically I'd bump that number up to 12.5h for two gas fill-ups, bathroom breaks, and food.
Care to upload a screenshot of your ABRP settings? You're not using current ABRP stock settings to achieve this optimistic nav time. Your charge overhead time setting has been changed/edited to 0 minutes per stop as is evident by the times posted. That's just unrealistic and misleading. What other settings have you changed/edited?Why would you use the Tesla planner? Everyone knows it's not really optimal. Why wouldn't you use ABRP which is going to give you real-world data in its results. It's showing 12h7m, for a 2020 P3D-, driving the way I would which is about 8-10mph above the speed limit.
It’s not ”my” 3 hours of charging, it is what the Tesla website says… i didn’t just pull it out of my ass . The stops between the two are almost identical but the charging times differ significantly. Not sure why, but if I have to pick I’m gonna trust the website for the company that made the car and the chargers.Which is basically what this drive would be in a 3 performance. As @KenC notes, I too show roughly 5 stops with right around an hour charging; maybe slightly longer depending on speed, but no where near your 3 hours of charging from the Tesla website.
The issue with the Tesla-generated charging plan you shared: aside from the Hardeeville SC, every other selected SC is a V2, maxing out at 150kWh, and also shares its power with the A+B stall pairs (meaning, 75kWh max, if you're stuck with someone next to you in the same pair). This explains some of those excessive charging times.Not sure why, but if I have to pick I’m gonna trust the website for the company that made the car and the chargers.
I completely agree. I re-generated the trip plan, with my '22 M3P as chosen vehicle, 20% minimum charger-arrival SoC (leaving a nice margin of error), and a 285 wH/mile trip efficiency, resulting in a 13 hour, 43 minute total trip (83 minutes total charge time). Nowhere near as aggressive a trip as @KenC's , but realistically saves about 75 minutes over the Tesla-plotted course.That better route planner is fine but it cuts things a little close for my taste with the wife and kids in the car. I have no intention of running my battery down to ~10% consistently with my family with me.
LOL, I've never caused such a stir. Actually, I'm mostly using stock settings, the biggest difference is 8-10mph over the speed limit, which is roughly 113%. I mentioned that. Of course, you have to choose the minimum SOC to charge, I put in 13%, and 10% destination. Should be obvious from just looking at the screenshot. There are NO OTHER CHANGES from stock. There's nothing unrealistic and misleading. Everything I changed I either mentioned or should be obvious from looking at the screenshot. If you are mislead, that's your own doing.Care to upload a screenshot of your ABRP settings? You're not using current ABRP stock settings to achieve this optimistic nav time. Your charge overhead time setting has been changed/edited to 0 minutes per stop as is evident by the times posted. That's just unrealistic and misleading. What other settings have you changed/edited?
Actually, your charger SOC is user-selectable. I chose 13%, (10% is the destination)because I've used ABRP extensively, and if you sign up for the free 2-wk trial, it uses wind data and checks to see how many chargers are in use, etc. It's live data and incredibly accurate. I don't have to assume anything. I used to use 15%, but after testing ABRP, I now use 13% with it. You are welcome to use 20% or whatever you want.That better route planner is fine but it cuts things a little close for my taste with the wife and kids in the car. I have no intention of running my battery down to ~10% consistently with my family with me.
Plus you are once again assuming that all these supercharger are open and charging at full speed… in my experience you can count on neither especially on I95 these days. I was supercharging a couple weeks ago and after waiting 10m for a stall to open I spent most of the session under 100kW. It is rare for me to supercharge so I was surprised to see that happen. It almost made me late for my meeting because I had to spend an extra 15 minutes charging.
Also, if I drive 10mph over the speed limit in the gas car I can make it in less than 11hr with stops. I’m still taking my gas car 9 times out of 10 for a trip like that.
I appreciate the info. I am aware of ABRP, from the forums, but have not used it since 95+% of my driving in my model 3 is local with home charging. The onboard route planning, in my experience, has been spot on when I go out of town so I tend to rely on it for longer trips (as I imagine most folks would). I was only conveying my experience driving from Savannah, GA to Virginia Beach and out to the western part of Virginia where charging speeds and wait times for superchargers have been erratic in my experience which can add (sometimes significant) time to the journey.You do you, I'm just giving you some info, since it's not at all clear, you know ABRP exists, since you were comparing Google Maps to the Tesla planner.