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HookBill
Member
Actually they get cease and desist letters from Tesla and obviously cannot comment on those in a public forum.
It's unreal to me that people would consider for one second to modify a device that is almost always connected to the Internet, potentially causing a modification that can kill them, and likely voiding the warranty on a $100,000+ purchase?
Not sure how people can get into a Tesla in the first place with that low brow mentality.
Jailbreaking a phone because because your cheap ass doesn't want to support a developer's app for 99 cents is 'edgy'. Messing with a car that can buy you a home in 10 different states and transports your family in offends basic human sensibilities.
Not sure how people can get into a Tesla in the first place with that low brow mentality.
Jailbreaking a phone because because your cheap ass doesn't want to support a developer's app for 99 cents is 'edgy'. Messing with a car that can buy you a home in 10 different states and transports your family in offends basic human sensibilities.
Two questions:
1.) Are you a lawyer?
2.) How many white collar crimes have you committed and rationalized somehow that makes you sleep well at night?
Here's what a decent human being does when confronted with your 13 donut situation.
Let the shop owner know about the 13th donut. See what they say. They may ask for the donut back or they may tell you "thanks for the honesty, go ahead and keep it"
I pray you become the first test case to brick your car and see you argue your case in front of a judge or jury. You will get nailed civilly if not criminally. You still would think after judgment, there was no wrong doing right..?
Common sense dictates that Tesla wants people to pay x to unlock y. And ' What makes you think you are above common sense that you can just unlock y without paying for x?
Not everyone is out to obtain something they didn't pay for. A lot of people see a mountain and want to climb to the top of it. Some people see a complex computer and want to "look under the hood."
If I had root access I'd probably change the car on the display to more closely match what mine is going to look like and see if I could tie driver profiles to a GPS location so when I went into park at home or work it would automatically run an exit profile.
There are no software options I didn't pay for. These actions may offend your human sensibilities but not everyone is wired the same. How many people on this forum would jump out of an airplane?
I've hacked cars for competition purposes and sometime just for kicks. One of the simple silly ones for fun: My rear window heater switch was my nitrous warmer, and fog light armed the solenoids, and horn relay fired the shot only when a sensor saw both 90% throttle and 3500 rpm. The bottle was hidden in the spare tire compartment.
Or reflashed the entire ECM to wildly alter the engine performance to dangerous levels for track use only.
But this conversation looks more like people who want to somebody to release or sell a cheap hack that will open their battery to full capacity without paying for it. Nobody is talking about how they would do it, which is a great hint as to what they are looking for, basically they want a private message: $500 and I will unlock your car.
You're probably right, but if they're asking they obviously don't know how. The few people that have or have alluded to having root access seem to be in it out of curiosity, the challenge of gaining access to a sophisticated system, or learning more about the vehicle. My guess is if you have those abilities you can probably afford to pay for the full battery or in the least don't need $500 for their work. I think most Tesla owners with this access want to safekeep it through obfuscation. One or two owners who find badging for future cars in the code creates hype and advertising for Tesla. If they were to start distributing illegal/immoral/unethical code that would definitely put them above the noise floor. A place no hacker white, grey, or black wants to be.
However, many on this thread seem to be suggesting that accessing the software for any reason, even diagnostic purposes, would be breach of some imaginary rule against doing so. In my quick scan, @green1 and others have made no argument about ethics, just legality. Two distinctly different things that are being muddled in this thread.
Pezpunk
Active Member
I've jumped out of an airplane.
Your rationalizations for theft are transparent and completely absurd.
I bought a fully loaded P100D and prepaid for software that isn't released yet. What could I possibly steal if I decide to root my car when it arrives?
For some (like Elon Musk) NOT exploring the full limits of a piece of technology, offends basic human sensibilities. No wonder his cars attract people that want to tinker with them and don't accept limitations that are only there for legal or commercial reasons.
Tesla sold me a car which is inclusive of everything in the vehicle including software. I did not agree to any software licensing agreements when I purchased the vehicle and signed the MVPA. I did not sign away any rights to the software and equipment present on the vehicle. Tesla chose to include software and hardware capabilities for which they did not charge - that's their fault, not mine. But I physically own my vehicle and everything in it, including all the battery cells (used or not). If I want to hack into the software to enable the additional 15 kWh of battery, Autopilot, or anything else, I'm hacking into my own vehicle for which I paid, and which was shipped to me with all of the hardware included for the price I paid. It's no different than hacking your Mac or your Android Phone to enable hidden features. That's not illegal. But don't expect support from Tesla.
Just read through this entire thread as well. I think it should simply come down to a basic ethos - don't be a dick. I get it. I'm a tinkerer, a car guy, and a techie at heart as well. To all those saying that it wouldn't be theft, of course it is. How would you feel, as the owner of a 75 kwH battery that you paid full price for, only to learn that there were people who bought the 60 kWh and then hacked it to enable 75kWh? Not only would you feel jipped, you would be hurting the company that you bought into by not allowing them to recognize that revenue.
That's a whole other issue. People feel that just because they can, that they should. A feeling of entitlement. Sure, no license agreement was signed, but that's the entire reason why laws exist - to prevent other companies and countries from simply copying Intellectual property and years of engineering and research to reverse engineer the hard work of others instead of innovating on their own. But that's just my 2 cents.
That's a whole other issue. People feel that just because they can, that they should. A feeling of entitlement. Sure, no license agreement was signed, but that's the entire reason why laws exist - to prevent other companies and countries from simply copying Intellectual property and years of engineering and research to reverse engineer the hard work of others instead of innovating on their own. But that's just my 2 cents.
Rights need to be given in the first place before you can sign them away again. Just because you paid a certain amount does not mean you received all the rights you think you got. For example you cannot distribute those parts of the Tesla car software that are licensed under the GPL without honouring the restrictions imposed upon it from being under that particular copyright license.
I am in Information Technology so tinkering with things is not a new concept to me. Installing an aftermarket stereo in your Honda Civic, and then hacking the stereo to change the wallpaper is different than trying to enable autopilot / fsdc yourself on a Tesla, and then letting it drive your family around. Nowhere near the same scale.
Potentially brick your $80,000 car for 250 a month over 3 years? No thanks.
Again, what rewards outweigh the risk of tinkering with the software of a car that RUNS on software. A car that can buy you a home in many states?
I'm not even debating ethics or legality. I''m arguing against stupidity and for common sense.
The original topic was unlocking features that you didn't pay for. You want to go to a torrent site, download autopilot_unlock.pl, run it on your car and then trust your family to that car after the script runs? THAT is what I find completely offensive and dumb.
Are you confident enough to hack your Tesla software, unlock everything and publish the code on the Internet?
After all, if its legal for you, it would be legal for everyone else right? Something tells me you can talk a lot of s*it, but you'd crap your pants the moment a lawyer from X, Y, and Z associates writes you an email.
Apple simply chooses not to prosecute people that mess with their phones because they can churn out a new consumer device every year for 800 bucks that bricks the jail break process. More is at stake when you add two zeros to an iPhone cost.
Dr. Smoke
My former name was Edmond. Before that, Quantum`.
Well, that's a nice Christian attitude. It's always surprising to me how so-called "Christians", revere the man as a god, but have a total disconnect from his teachings and believe the opposite.
What half here don't realize is that Tesla takes away key functionalities when they blacklist a car. Functionalities that have been bought and paid for. Are you hearin' the words what are comin' out my mouf?
Why don't you look down on this, from your high horse, Mr. 'MXWing'?
