demundus
Active Member
As for "hacking my car", I think everyone on here knows that I have hacked my car.
Did you really though...?
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As for "hacking my car", I think everyone on here knows that I have hacked my car.
It's somewhat different though (I'm not taking a side, so don't throw me into this mess) - HD manufacturers use decimal capacity (i.e. "1,000" instead of "1,024") leading to the difference, and phone manufacturers actually do give you the "full" (minus the space caveat) storage, it's just that the OS is also loaded into some of it.Interesting. I'll be curious to see how this shapes up. I imagine Tesla would take a similar route to any claims against them for the 85's in this case as, for example, hard drive manufacturers do. We all know that our 1TB harddrives will only have on the order of 900GB of usable space. That goes double for, say, 32GB phones that only have ~20GB available after the formatting and OS take their share.
In light of the legal claims, I'd appreciate it if all parties could refrain from accusing people of illegal actions until they can find such a law.
It's somewhat different though (I'm not taking a side, so don't throw me into this mess) - HD manufacturers use decimal capacity (i.e. "1,000" instead of "1,024") leading to the difference, and phone manufacturers actually do give you the "full" (minus the space caveat) storage, it's just that the OS is also loaded into some of it.
So I get what you're saying, I'm just being pedantic, but these examples are not ideal.
My sales paperwork says "85kWh"This may be slightly off topic, but I'm actually kind of curious on this. I bought a 60 and don't recall seeing anywhere a specification that stated that that number indicated the exact battery capacity in kWh. Is there such a specification anywhere in the purchase agreement?
Except that people have gone far beyond saying "it's illegal" (despite it clearly not being so) and are instead specifically calling it theft, and implying that the person is a thief for doing so. It's in the conflating of their dislike for the person with the idea that the person is committing a crime that they are not actually committing that libel would come in.Also, to address the point earlier, I could be wrong but I don't think that giving an opinion on the legality a given action would be considered grounds for libel either. For example, if I made the claim that, say: "Forcibly keeping a dog inside your house is illegal", I can't imagine that that becomes grounds for a libel suit by dog owners everywhere. Even if we make it specific and I publicly tell a dog owner that I think they're breaking the law by keeping their dog in their house, that still sounds dubious as the grounds for such a suit.
Except that this isn't even about "useable" space, this is pure cell capacity. It's well known that the 85s contain 77kWh packs, that are limited to even less to avoid damage from over or under charging (this isn't true of other pack sizes that Tesla offers where the pack size is close to accurate before the parts used to prevent damage are taken in to account)Interesting. I'll be curious to see how this shapes up. I imagine Tesla would take a similar route to any claims against them for the 85's in this case as, for example, hard drive manufacturers do. We all know that our 1TB harddrives will only have on the order of 900GB of usable space. That goes double for, say, 32GB phones that only have ~20GB available after the formatting and OS take their share.
There's actually no law against it in any country in the world that we are aware of... so it's not just "technically legal in china" it's legal EVERYWHERE.People will always justify their actions by claiming there is no law against it. Just because there's no law in China about ripping off intellectual property, it's still immoral and unethical. Just like I don't need religion to do the right thing, I don't need laws either -- even though there are laws.
I've posted pictures in other threads of my car's displays showing a configuration Tesla hadn't yet released, so I'll consider that it's well known I have. If you doubt it... *shrug* not my problem.Did you really though...?
They don't have a way to fully measure it, but they certainly found enough to prove that it's nowhere near the situation that phone manufacturers are in, there's definitely missing kWh from the 85 packs, you might be able to argue whether it's 76 or 78 kWh, but there's absolute proof that it isn't 85.Right. It's hard to tell exactly, because my info about the battery capacity comes from layman-worded articles, but it sounded like the given capacities(including the 77kWh for the Model S 85) were just usable capacities, and that the experimenter didn't have a way to measure the true theoretical capacity of the full battery pack. If I didn't misunderstand that, then it would seem to fall under a similar situation as the phone manufacturer whose 32GB phone has 20GB of usable space.
Or maybe the conversion to lay-speak missed some nuance and I'm totally wrong.
They don't have a way to fully measure it, but they certainly found enough to prove that it's nowhere near the situation that phone manufacturers are in, there's definitely missing kWh from the 85 packs, you might be able to argue whether it's 76 or 78 kWh, but there's absolute proof that it isn't 85.
BTW: BMW is honest with customers - they clearly state what capacity is usable and what is reserved. Funny thing - state credits (where they depend on battery capacity) calculated from whole capacity but manufacturer markets really usable capacity.They don't have a way to fully measure it, but they certainly found enough to prove that it's nowhere near the situation that phone manufacturers are in, there's definitely missing kWh from the 85 packs, you might be able to argue whether it's 76 or 78 kWh, but there's absolute proof that it isn't 85.
In light of the legal claims, I'd appreciate it if all parties could refrain from accusing people of illegal actions until they can find such a law.
And I'd like you to stop making the point that hacking the software to STEAL, yes I said STEAL, things you didn't pay for is perfectly acceptable to do. I doubt either of us is going to get what they want...
I really don't see how some of you think this is so complicated... You bought a car with X features/functionality, that's the car you bought. Hacking the software to enable things you didn't pay for is theft, it just simply is. Just because you can't point to a specific law/statute that says otherwise doesn't make it any more or less of a theft. The only difference is without the "law" you can't be punished for it but again, you still took something that wasn't yours. If you're morally acceptable to that reality then okay, fine, be morally bankrupt if you wish but in the end you have to live with your decisions.
Jeff
So in your mind is it illegal to remove the autopilot hardware and sell it; since technically you did not pay for it? Or must it always be on the vehicle to not constitute theft?
Stop being so judgmental of others, and let people do what they think is right if it doesn't break any laws and doesn't personally harm you.
As for "I don't needs laws"... that explains a LOT about your mindset. You don't care what the law says, you know that you, and you alone, are the arbiter of what is right and wrong in this world.
Hacking the software to enable things you didn't pay for is theft, it just simply is
I really don't see how some of you think this is so complicated... You bought a car with X features/functionality, that's the car you bought. Hacking the software to enable things you didn't pay for is theft, it just simply is.
Woah, be careful with that. That logic would support Microsoft being owed royalties on any 3rd party software of any kind that runs on Windows computers. And require that, say, Dell must be paid for any software an end user wants to install on one of their computers.
so I guess overclocking a processor could also potentially be theft? Since you did not pay for that extra performance?