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Is it possible to have it all? Please school a wheel and tire noob.

Discussion in 'Model 3: Driving Dynamics' started by MXWing, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    I am looking to replace the wheels and tires that came with my 3P+ and was wondering what a recommended setup would be? I am hoping to achieve the following by changing out tires/wheels:

    0 - Keep existing brakes and the everything else except tires/wheels.
    1 - Attractive black wheels
    2 - Improve straight line performance.
    3 - Improve range.
    4 - 18 Inch? - Seems everyone prefers thems and give better durability and range?

    I think there are some group buy setups but I am unsure if they would apply for my personal case?

    Thanks in advance for the help.
     
  2. Vines

    Vines Member

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    0 - Rims and tires are one of those choices on a car that effect everything, so understand the whole system. 19" anything will likely fit your brakes, except really low clearance (cheap) styles.
    1 - Easy, Black is in just decide if you want satin, gloss or matte See the Machine black TS-5/10 wheels in the group buy thread from Titan, if they look nice to you. Anything can be powder coated black as well, just depends on budget.
    2. - Any lighter weight rim will improve acceleration by reducing rotating mass, however only really sticky tires will have the maximum grip needed for .1-.2 quicker 0-60 times. Understand the UTQD rating, and know a 300 (stock 20s) to 500 (stock 18) to 60 ( Barely street legal drag radials). Lighter rims wont gain much over heavier ones on the freeway, then its more about aero.
    3.- Two and 3 are generally at odds. Sticker tires stick to the road more requiring more power to roll, likewise, wider tires, and lower tire pressures all contribute to faster 0-60 times. All those things also reduce mileage.
    4. 18" are cheaper, and have a wider selection of tires in some sizes, so are generally preferred. Especially in winter tires, 18 is more reasonable, but you can find them in 19 just a reduced selection. Narrower tires will both have less traction and also give more range. The Aero covers on the 18 alone are worth something like 10% range on the freeway.
     
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  3. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    0 - Being careful to ask and understand from someone like yourself. :)
    1 - Powdercoating only last for a certain time? 2 years? A wheel that comes in black would save that reoccurring expense and repeat visits is my thought.
    2 - .1 to .2 won't be that noticeable I don't think in day to day situations. Giving up durability and range is a bummer. :(
    3 - Understand and makes sense.

    4 - Essentially, I shouldn't have gone with the 5K Performance Upgrade Package per my desired requirements. All I got was some rice out of the deal. :)

    So then it sounds like my best option at this point is to find a good 19" setup? Also assuming the aero cover setup is only for the 18 wheels?

    Thanks again.
     
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  4. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    19 x 9 in forged monoblock is what the P3D+ should have come with, lighter, stronger, faster
     
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  5. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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  6. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    Sit tight, wait for the performance data to come back after the first group buy, then the decision will be much easier...
     
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  7. ewoodrick

    ewoodrick Member

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    3) What you are seeing is what I suspect is many months of engineering and debating to create the best solution for the car. And that includes keeping the wheel covers on.

    So if you change the wheels or the tires or even the tire pressures, your range will probably suffer, as well as possibly road noise, since the exist solution has noise abatement.
     
  8. Jedi2155

    Jedi2155 Please Insert a Model 3 into Avatar

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    My only solution to this requirement was to have 2 sets of wheels. A daily driver (18" aeros), and set of performance tires if I want track/drag times to maximize. Due to the inability to fit the stock 18" Aeros confirmed that I don't need/want the Performance Upgrade (but that spoiler looks so nice...*ahem* rice).

    I can just create a set of performance tires later on if I decide to spend the extra set @ $2500-3500 (I was looking the V-FF103 / on a White M3) personally) with a set of Pilot 4S.
     
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  9. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    Sage advice.

    Let the experience people who have the resources and know how to be on the cutting edge and noobs follow.

    One of the requirements of dark wheels is i am still on the fence of a matte ppf color change.

    That’s all in effort.. with blacked out wheels.

    Easiest is of course to powder coat the factory setup but why not optimize the whole setup at once.

    I’m impressed people pay 5000 or more just for Black sonic carbons. People love their black wheels.
     
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  10. Vines

    Vines Member

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    #11 Vines, Aug 21, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
    1 - Powdercoating will last longer than 1-2 years certainly, but you get what you pay for. The best powder coating is a baked on finish that is extremely hard and durable, its what the factory puts on wheels from manufacture, sometimes with an additional clearcoat. A finish like this will be very durable as long as you don't curb it, and keep it washed.

    Painted wheels are much less durable, as paint is a much thinner and cheaper option.

    All aluminum is naturally silver/grey, so every wheel you have seen is either painted, clearcoated or powder coated. Factory grey turbine wheels are a good example of this.

    2 - The place you will most notice difference in hard vs sticky tires is on braking and turning. Due to traction control and abs you might not notice that you are approaching the limit of the tire, but if you compare stopping distances, or skid pad numbers then you would be able to see the difference even if you might not feel them. like was mentioned above the best of both worlds is just to get both worlds. An 18" aero set with 500 Treadwear tires inflated to 42-45 psi for daily driving and aero covers on, and an 18-19 set of summer high performance or DOT racing rubber for the need for speed. I used to commute in my red vr6 GTI over highway 9 on Yokohama A032 Advan tires, treadwear like 60-80. That was the best commute of my life ;) but expensive. I remember one of the times I got pulled over, the cop literally said "Son, I drive this race track every day" after eyeing my 4 point harness and well prepped car.

    However for most people that's not reasonable, as changing tires often might be a significant amount of work depending on your garage situation. The best bet is a compromise. In California you can basically run summer tires all year and just slow down a bit for the rain. Something like the Pilot 4S at 300 treadwear is an excellent compromise tire that takes the performance as primary, something like the stock Primacy is perfect for long lasting range focused tires with a much lower overall grip.

    Finding a good 19" forged performance setup is certainly the compromise that I am taking, I will run a high performance summer tire on them, wider width than stock and the whole assembly will be lighter or very close than stock due to the lightweight rims. Since I get free charging for work, I'll take the range hit for daily driving and not really care. I'll still get that really sporty ride, and increased safety with the better braking and handling. Efficiency wise, It might be as bad in wh/m as a model S, and I'd still feel like I was doing great. We plan on doing a cross country trip to new york next year, so for something like that I will switch back to my stock tires with aero caps on it. That's the same reason I did not get the performance package, as I knew the bigger brakes would not only be heavier, so reducing acceleration, but also be larger than the stock aeros, and I'd like that extra range for yearly multi day trips.
     
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  11. Daniel in SD

    Daniel in SD Member

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    Summer tires are better in the rain than all-season tires. Of course you should slow down in the rain no matter where you live.
     
  12. Jedi2155

    Jedi2155 Please Insert a Model 3 into Avatar

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    I don't know about you but I burn out all the time in the rain. Of course I can't remember the last time I saw rain so the actual amount of burnouts is 0.
     
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  13. ronin

    ronin Member

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    Now that TST has 18” wheels that fit the P3D+ Brakes and rotors, maybe we can ask them to put little hinges in those 18” that might allow the aero covers to fit over?
     
  14. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    Having the cake and eating it too would be awesome.
     
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