Is it still possible to get a 3-phase 16A UMC charger in Europe?

[pedrocr]

Is it still possible to buy a UMC or an adapter for the one included with the car that will charge in a 3-phase industrial red plug? I charge in some places where a 32A circuit is not feasible. But those places do have 3-phase power and it would be nice to be able to charge a Model 3 at full power if needed (3x16Ax230V=11kW). I know the HPWC can do it, and in the US there is the NEMA 14-50 UMC. Is there an equivalent model for three phase power?

I've seen in a couple of threads that this is something @arg might now. So hopefully it's not too much abuse to ask by name. Thanks in advance.

 

[arg]

Well, if you could find a V1 UMC then it would do what you want; however, the V2 UMC is apparently single-phase only.

It appears that Tesla are now supplying the V2 UMC with all new cars (both Model S/X and Model 3), so the V1 is probably out of production. Possibly you might find one in old stock at a service centre. They also appear regularly on eBay.

But what you need isn't Tesla-specific, there are third-party alternatives that do the same job, such as:

https://www.juice-technology.com/juice-booster?lang=en
EVR3 - Type 2 - max 22 kW [Portable charging station] - e-Station Store

 

[pedrocr]

But what you need isn't Tesla-specific, there are third-party alternatives that do the same job, such as:

https://www.juice-technology.com/juice-booster?lang=en
EVR3 - Type 2 - max 22 kW [Portable charging station] - e-Station Store

I hadn't found these. They looks perfect, thanks. Being able to adjust the maximum current in the charger is great. It allows not depending on limiting in the car to work with lower power circuits.

They do look a bit pricey, maybe in part because of the 22kW support, but it at least gives me confidence I can definitely go this route in the future if I need it. I'll prepare the installation for 3x16A and see if I get along with 3kW for now and buy a 3-phase charger if not.

 

[Alfred]

But what you need isn't Tesla-specific, there are third-party alternatives that do the same job, such as:

https://www.juice-technology.com/juice-booster?lang=en
EVR3 - Type 2 - max 22 kW [Portable charging station] - e-Station Store

I use the juice-booster often when underway. It can serve also as the home wall-box. You can connect try-phasic to the red 3x32 as well as the red 3-16 sockets. The car will then always charge at 11kW as that is what the cars rectifier supports. Also the connector to the blue 16A or the respective domestic sockets get some use. It expands your "destination charging" versatility considerably. For cross-border travel you can get sets of connectors for various European countries.

 

[Tastee]

Am reasonably certain the UMC that came with our 2018 MX has support for 3 phase charging because I used it to hook up to a red plug at a hotel and got at least 11kw if not 16kw.
I’m also pretty sure that it’s a v2 UMC.

 

[webbah]

I bought the Juice Booster 2 instead of the UMC v1. Very high quality kit and tons of adaptors available.

 

[pedrocr]

Am reasonably certain the UMC that came with our 2018 MX has support for 3 phase charging because I used it to hook up to a red plug at a hotel and got at least 11kw if not 16kw.
I’m also pretty sure that it’s a v2 UMC.

It's a Gen1, Gen2 is single phase.

I bought the Juice Booster 2 instead of the UMC v1. Very high quality kit and tons of adaptors available.

Yep, that seems to be the best option right now. It's a 1000€ extra cost though versus just getting it standard with the car like you used to before.

 

[webbah]

It's a Gen1, Gen2 is single phase.



Yep, that seems to be the best option right now. It's a 1000€ extra cost though versus just getting it standard with the car like you used to before.

Yeah that’s true, but I guess I’m used to the adaptors game as I had a 2012 Roadster for 7 years. I compared the cost of buying the v1 MCU and it was 700 Chf so spending the extra 300 (1000 or so) for the Juice with the quality and abundance of available adaptors made more sense to me. I actually bought the Juice Booster Europe Travel kit which was 1,600 Chf. ;-)

 

[IvarAVad]

Is it still possible to buy a UMC or an adapter for the one included with the car that will charge in a 3-phase industrial red plug? I charge in some places where a 32A circuit is not feasible. But those places do have 3-phase power and it would be nice to be able to charge a Model 3 at full power if needed (3x16Ax230V=11kW). I know the HPWC can do it, and in the US there is the NEMA 14-50 UMC. Is there an equivalent model for three phase power?

I've seen in a couple of threads that this is something @arg might now. So hopefully it's not too much abuse to ask by name. Thanks in advance.

I can see this is an old thread, but you have the numbers wrong Pedrocr... 3-phase red connector is 400V and the blue is 230V. At 16A you can get maximum ≈6,4 kW on 230V 3-phase, but 11 kW on 400V. I just received my ‘21 Model 3LR this monday, and my UMC only had the Schuko plug included. Is it possible to change the connecting cable to a 1-phase blue CEE, so I can charge 16A instead of max 13A? I will of course buy a home charger for better capacity, but as a temporary solution, I would prefer to maximize my available option.

 

[webbah]

I can see this is an old thread, but you have the numbers wrong Pedrocr... 3-phase red connector is 400V and the blue is 230V. At 16A you can get maximum ≈6,4 kW on 230V 3-phase, but 11 kW on 400V. I just received my ‘21 Model 3LR this monday, and my UMC only had the Schuko plug included. Is it possible to change the connecting cable to a 1-phase blue CEE, so I can charge 16A instead of max 13A? I will of course buy a home charger for better capacity, but as a temporary solution, I would prefer to maximize my available option.

You can buy adaptors at Tesla for the UMC.

 

[Candleflame]

you can buy them from aliexpress or ebay

 

[tezcatcatl]

I didnt want to make a separate topic for my similar question so here we go, hope someone can help.

I have a 2016 (March) P90D pre-facelift, my UMC is single phase according to the dealer.
But they also said my car has dual charger so it supports 22kw charging?..

I will be visiting family abroad and I want to setup a charging plug in my mothers house, which has three-phase electricity.

I would like to be able to charge at 32amp single phase. So I bought the 32amp blue adapter for my UMC. However, I cant seem to figure out what female socket to bring with me and how to do the installation. I will hire an electrician but she lives in a small village and it is hard to find reliable technicians there.

All blue CEE sockets that I could find on the internet say 3p 230v 32a or 3p 230v 16a.
Which supports 22kw and 11kw respectively.

However my umc can only use 1p 230v 32a, which is 7kw.

Do I need a specific socket for using 1p 230v 32a?
Or is my umc smart enough to work by dividing the load onto all 3 phases, or is it just gonna be able to work via just one phase anyways if it is plugged into a 3p 32a 230v socket, which is connected to all 3 phases on the wall? Or will it not work at all because it is a 3p socket?

What if I dont wanna pull 32a from 1 phase, but divide it into 2 or 3 phases? Is that possible?

Any help choosing the cable, sockets, switches would be much appreciated.

 

[arg]

All blue CEE sockets that I could find on the internet say 3p 230v 32a or 3p 230v 16a.
Which supports 22kw and 11kw respectively.

No. If they are blue, the "3P" means "3-pin", not "3-phase". So if you have a 32A blue adapter for your UMC then that's 32A single phase and supports 7kW approx.
3 pins: Line, Neutral, Earth.

Or is my umc smart enough to work divide the load onto all 3 phases, or is it just gonna be able to work via just one phase anyways if it is plugged into a 3p 32a 230v socket, which is connected to all 3 phases on the wall?

If you had a 3-phase socket it would be red, and would have 5 pins: L1, L2, L3, N, E. Your car is smart enough to divide the load across 3 phases, but only with the right kind of UMC. With the 3-pin plug (and the 2 current-carrying cores in the UMC cable), there simply aren't enough wires to carry the 3 phases. You can't just connect them together!

What if I dont wanna pull 32a from 1 phase, but divide it into 2 or 3 phases? Is that possible?

Only by obtaining a 3-phase capable EVSE: the old Tesla UMC, or similar portable charging products such as the JuiceBooster made by other companies.
However, the latter are expensive: given you are installing a socket specially for the purpose, you might as well install a permanent chargepoint (the Tesla WC, or third-party equivalents of which there are many more wall-mount options than portable ones).

 

[tezcatcatl]

No. If they are blue, the "3P" means "3-pin", not "3-phase". So if you have a 32A blue adapter for your UMC then that's 32A single phase and supports 7kW approx.
3 pins: Line, Neutral, Earth.


If you had a 3-phase socket it would be red, and would have 5 pins: L1, L2, L3, N, E. Your car is smart enough to divide the load across 3 phases, but only with the right kind of UMC. With the 3-pin plug (and the 2 current-carrying cores in the UMC cable), there simply aren't enough wires to carry the 3 phases. You can't just connect them together!

Only by obtaining a 3-phase capable EVSE: the old Tesla UMC, or similar portable charging products such as the JuiceBooster made by other companies.
However, the latter are expensive: given you are installing a socket specially for the purpose, you might as well install a permanent chargepoint (the Tesla WC, or third-party equivalents of which there are many more wall-mount options than portable ones).

Thank you so much for all the explanation! Appreciated.
Thing is, I visit them 2 or 3 times a year, hence I don't want to invest in a permanent charge station.

In this case please allow me to further my question to be able to decide which products I will invest in and get them installed.
After reading your explanation, it looks like cheapest option for me is to go with single phase 32a 240v charging, which is around 7kw.

For this, can I just get below items and will be done (safely)?

- 32A CEE 2P+E blue female wall socket

- 3x6mm2 cable (Looks like it is rated for 44a in air, 50a in soil) - Cable length will be +-15 meters
(In a US website they recommended 10mm2 cable but looks like it's rated for 60a in air, 66a in soil here)

- How many amp should be the braker? Any other specifications for the braker? Like belated or instant popping ones etc?

- Any other products / installation do I need?

Thanks a lot once again!

 

[arg]

To be legal (at least by UK regulations) your socket needs to be an interlocked one rather than the simple one you posted a picture of.
For example: Gewiss IEC 309 32A Switched Interlocked Socket 240V GW66015 | RS Electrical Supplies

6mm^2 cable is normally suitable.

It would be conventional to use a 32A breaker for a 32A socket. For EV charging, the normal 'B' curve is appropriate.

You also need an RCD. Due to a quirk in the UK regulations, here you need only a Type A for a standard socket, while you would need an expensive Type B (or type EV) for a permanently installed chargepoint. Regulations may be different in the Netherlands or you may not care. Do not use a type AC.

 

[tezcatcatl]

To be legal (at least by UK regulations) your socket needs to be an interlocked one rather than the simple one you posted a picture of.
For example: Gewiss IEC 309 32A Switched Interlocked Socket 240V GW66015 | RS Electrical Supplies

6mm^2 cable is normally suitable.

It would be conventional to use a 32A breaker for a 32A socket. For EV charging, the normal 'B' curve is appropriate.

You also need an RCD. Due to a quirk in the UK regulations, here you need only a Type A for a standard socket, while you would need an expensive Type B (or type EV) for a permanently installed chargepoint. Regulations may be different in the Netherlands or you may not care. Do not use a type AC.

Thanks a lot!
It is going to be installed in Turkey, so I don't expect any regulations at all

Finally, so wouldn't it trip the breaker if I charge with 32A if I used a 32A breaker?
And would a 2x32a 30mA 6kA RCD be safe? And can I use 40A RCD instead of 32A? (Same specs 40A is half the price of 32A here )

 

[Tozz]

Finally, so wouldn't it trip the breaker if I charge with 32A if I used a 32A breaker?

No, atleast not if there aren't any other loads on that circuit. Obviously if you charge with 32A on a 32A breaker, but there is also an oven or something on that circuit, you might trip the breaker. If you are worried, just dial down the amps to eg. 25A or something.

The type B RCD is only required if the EVSE doesn't have DC-current detection by itself. The Tesla HPWC doesn't have it, but most other EVSE's these days do. In that case a regular Type A RCD is sufficient.

AFAIK the Juicebooster has DC-current detection built in.

 

[tezcatcatl]

No, atleast not if there aren't any other loads on that circuit. Obviously if you charge with 32A on a 32A breaker, but there is also an oven or something on that circuit, you might trip the breaker. If you are worried, just dial down the amps to eg. 25A or something.

The type B RCD is only required if the EVSE doesn't have DC-current detection by itself. The Tesla HPWC doesn't have it, but most other EVSE's these days do. In that case a regular Type A RCD is sufficient.

AFAIK the Juicebooster has DC-current detection built in.

Thank you!
Since my last post, there have been an oppotunity to buy a second hand Tesla Wall charger so I got it.
I just received my Type B RCD and Type B circuit breakers aswell. Hopefully will find an electrician to install it by the end of this month.

Cheers!

 

[vectorflux]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this useful thread. I have done a bit of research in preparation for the arrival of a long-awaited Model Y in Switzerland next month (unfortunately from their Shanghai facility, not Brandenburg, which is still waiting for the final permit). We had a Model S until May 2021 with a Gen1 mobile connector and several plugs (German, Swiss 1-phase, CEE 16A 3-phase), and this worked just great. In particular, it was possible to program it for timed charging at a given amperage (e.g., 5-10A) to optimize the usage of solar power from our 7kW solar installation during the day. After reading this thread I know realize that Tesla has taken a major step backwards with Gen2:

• As many of you pointed out, the standard mobile connector (presumably) delivered with the Tesla Y only supports single phase.
• Tesla does seem to offer a 3-phase CEE 16A cable: Corded Mobile Connector but this seems to be out of stock for the long term.
• Tesla seems to be encouraging us to purchase wall connectors: Wall Connector for home charging. Nothing wrong with this, but I don't see why I should invite the electrician back for another outrageously expensive installation...
• Many of you pointed out that the Juice Booster 2 is the best (non-Tesla) option for 3-phase charging, albeit at a high price. But caution is advised: one of the reviews (sorry I cannot find it again) reported that this product would give an error message if used in conjunction with Tesla delayed charging features, and thus the user recommended it only if you plan to charge immediately. I would be happy if some of you could relate your experiences.
• There are other non-Tesla solutions, e.g., K.H.O.N.S. Typ 2 EV-Ladegerät 16A 11KW für Elektrofahrzeuge 3 Phasen 11KW CEE-Stecker, 8/10/13/16A einstellbar, CE Approved, IEC 62752,16.4FT EV Cable : Amazon.de: Auto & Motorrad

My planned solution is to purchase Corded Mobile Connector if it becomes available. If it does not, I'll buy one of the non-Tesla solutions and hope for the best with delayed charging.

Many thanks in advance for any corrections or advise that others can offer!

 

[Tastee]

You might want to try out nrg charger. I don’t know if it works with scheduled charging though.

NRGkick - Alles, was dein E-Auto zum Laden braucht

Mit NRGkick kannst du dein Elektroauto überall laden, wo es Strom gibt. Der Ladevorgang ist dabei denkbar einfach: Verbinde NRGkick mit einer Steckdose und schließe den Adapterstecker an das Elektroauto – fertig!

www.nrgkick.com

TeslaBjorn’s review