That saying is, to preserve battery during cold days, lower the cabin temperature and use the seat and steering wheel heater to stay warm as they use less power. But with the 2021+ and its heat pump, until the temperature goes down to -10C or lower, is the heat pump efficient enough that you don't need to do that? Earlier in fall at 10C, I was averaging 150wh/km. Now at -5C, I'm at 170wh/km. That's less than 15% drop.
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Is it still recommended to use seat heaters instead of heat in 2021+ Model 3s?
- Thread starter SylvainG
- Start date
Really good question, I have been asking this myself. Probably the consumption of seat heaters (if they are still electric and not get heat from the heat pump) is is not so high, because the car still turns them on automatically.
I was trying to find a video where they would disassemble the seats from 2021 TM3 to see if they are still heated electrically.
I was trying to find a video where they would disassemble the seats from 2021 TM3 to see if they are still heated electrically.
The answer is yes, but I would say, use both for best comfort.
I have everything set to "Auto", and it nicely controls both seat heaters and climate. The only thing I control is the intended temperature. In my experience this works very well. Seat heaters are automatically activated when somebody takes a seat, and they are quickly heated up, then gradually reduced for the best overall feeling.
I have everything set to "Auto", and it nicely controls both seat heaters and climate. The only thing I control is the intended temperature. In my experience this works very well. Seat heaters are automatically activated when somebody takes a seat, and they are quickly heated up, then gradually reduced for the best overall feeling.
Candleflame
Active Member
the seat heaters use a lot less power. I cant rememember how much they use, but someone posted it on here. I seem to recall it was 80w for lv 1, 120w for lv 2 and 160w for lv 3 (or maybe it was 120w for level 3).
So switching the heatin down to like 19C from 23C or whatever saves a lot of energy with the heat pump.
So switching the heatin down to like 19C from 23C or whatever saves a lot of energy with the heat pump.
It is easy enough to experiment with it. Open the power consumption page and watch what happens when you use various options. On a moderately cold day I had opened it just to see how I was doing and noted I was above rated consumption. Out of curiosity I turned the heat off entirely and it dropped noticeably by about 20kw/mi. Yes, it still went up and down with driving but you could see it on the graph that on average it was down. Wait until the car has warmed up though, when it is cold it will just eat power no matter what.
I didn't try though to see if heated seats would use less, just that using no heat used a lot less. I don't really like having my butt roasted while I drive.
I didn't try though to see if heated seats would use less, just that using no heat used a lot less. I don't really like having my butt roasted while I drive.
Candleflame
Active Member
its very tricky to measure consumption as it largely depends on user scenario.
I.e. the bad name of the induction heater comes mainly from people driving their shortish work commutes.
During long distance driving the induction heater paradoxically actually doesnt use that much - combination of high speed, Heat boosting during supercharging (turning the cabin heating up to 28C during supercharging for free heating) and only needing to maintain heat.
Commuting however is expensive as you have to heat the entire cabin and by the time you are finished you already finished your commute.
The heat pump got also issues i.e. inability to siphon heat from the cold battery pack.
The heat pump is way more efficient than resistive heating was, when this recommendation came out.
I'd just precondition while plugged in, and leave everything on auto at your desired temp. You could turn it down a couple degrees if it's really cold out to save energy. But unless you have a range issue with where you're trying to go, why suffer with very cold interior temps?
I'd just precondition while plugged in, and leave everything on auto at your desired temp. You could turn it down a couple degrees if it's really cold out to save energy. But unless you have a range issue with where you're trying to go, why suffer with very cold interior temps?
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SalisburySam
Active Member
What is your range requirement, and how comfortable do you want to be? If range isn’t an issue, go with full heat. If it is, skimp on the heat or use some hypermiling techniques if you can. Or charge e route.
I don't do long trip, longest is going to the cottage, which is 103 km and I have a level 2 charger there as well so it's more a curiosity than anything else. Mind you, going to the cottage at -30C with the car preheated and starting at 80%, it was down to 27% when I got there. That's 281 kW/km, which is almost double the power requirement at 10C
Edit. Forgot to add, interior was set to 21C for both (10C and -30C) with seat heated on at -30C but off at 10C (I'm not living in California so 10C isn't cold for us lol).
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Mattopotamus
Member
You measure with all other things being equal, or as equal as they can be. And where do you commute that the car isn't fully heated long before you're done? Not in LA or NYC, that's for sure! OIC, Queensland. My son is in Brisbane at the moment. It sounds like you don't need a car there, you need a boat.
As you've recorded, there's not a big difference in energy usage. So unless you have some special use case where you need the extra range, then just relax, be comfortable, pre-condition, blast the heat, heat the seats, heat the steering.
In terms of if heated seats is more "efficient" than the heat pump, it's not a question that could be answered in a satisfactory way. 1. Some people think the comfort levels between the heating methods to feel very different 2. energy usage depends on ambient temperature and various components' temperatures 3. Can you plug the car in to pre-condition or not 4. At very low temps, with no heated air, windows will fog/frost up
Candleflame
Active Member
oh for QLD it doesnt matter coz you dont need the heater much. Yeah in winter if you live in the mountains (as i do now) it might be 4-5C in the morning in winter but the sun quickly warms stuff up and going from 5C to 20C isnt the same as going from -20C to 20C (and then maintaining that as it the sun wont warm the car)
the issue is that commuting heating uses a lot of power because you have to heat the whole cabin through (i.e. the interior) whereas on a trip that becomes less relevant or irrelevant as the upkeep is only what matters. and you get free boostheating during supercharging.
My point is that a commute here in NYC, or in LA, will always be an hour. Even in the coldest weather here in NY it only takes about 20 minutes to warm and during those 20 minutes I just know it will take a lot. If you're going to measure, wait until it is all warmed up and watch that on the screen.
And usually, if I'm going out in the cold I'll preheat the car with it plugged in.
And usually, if I'm going out in the cold I'll preheat the car with it plugged in.
20 minutes? I’m on the other side of the Hudson, and preheating either our 3 or X is about a 5 minute affair even on the coldest of days. Maybe 8 minutes when we approach 0F. Both cars are the older induction heater style, so maybe that makes a difference vs the heat pump? Not sure, but I’m quite happy with the results.
I won’t do the “seat warmer only” thing; I’m too old and work too hard to be uncomfortable.
Same here, this "trick" of using only seat warmers is in my back pocket in case I think I'll run out of battery before my destination. Even then, I'll slow down before I turn off the heat. Unless you're doing some kind of competition to get the most range, I don't understand why one would have their ass too hot and their face and hands cold during a drive Reducing the heat to around 20C and keeping a sweater might be a better option
Reducing the heat to around 20C and keeping a sweater might be a better optionWell anyone who sees a hot ass will surly get warm. Now it takes less time to warm up my car asI won’t do the “seat warmer only” thing; I’m too old and work too hard to be uncomfortable.
it takes to drink a TNT. I think I like my car at 80F but not my partner. So seats hot or cold, 10F or
80f really is nobody's business but your own, you can drink all the liquer in Costa a rico , wow its
happy hour again. never mind
This was for the battery and other features to warm up, not just the cabin, as a way to measure power draw. Those take a lot longer. The cabin is warm in a few minutes as you say. On a cold day the regen braking takes about 20 to fully come back to life.20 minutes? I’m on the other side of the Hudson, and preheating either our 3 or X is about a 5 minute affair even on the coldest of days. Maybe 8 minutes when we approach 0F. Both cars are the older induction heater style, so maybe that makes a difference vs the heat pump? Not sure, but I’m quite happy with the results.
I won’t do the “seat warmer only” thing; I’m too old and work too hard to be uncomfortable.
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