I agree it isn't ideal upgrade time but you're behind the reality if you think AP2 is poor an dysfunctional. Buy one then judge. Til then you have no basis.
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I agree it isn't ideal upgrade time but you're behind the reality if you think AP2 is poor an dysfunctional. Buy one then judge. Til then you have no basis.
Don't believe @calisnow, I actually can see into the future.
My one piece of advise is do not trust Tesla's claims on future updates and software rollouts. They are usually half-baked attempts significantly behind timelines that do not live up to the marketing hype. It would be CRAZY to upgrade to an AP2 car based on expectations that "it will get better with time".Wait until an AP2 car is definitively better (in the ways that matter to YOU) before considering an upgrade. There is not a single instance right now where I can imagine an AP2 car is better than AP1, other than the refreshed nose-cone (aesthetics) and being shiny/new.
No, do not "buy one then judge".
Ask Tesla to lend you an AP2 car to test drive for a day, then judge, and buy based ONLY on what the car can currently do. If you think it is better than AP1 (and you won't) then buy the car.
Not knowing Tesla's troubled history with broken promises and believing the hype, "buy then judge" is what I did. My decision to purchase was based on Tesla's false claims and I regret being suckered by them.
Just my opinion, HW2 hasn't proven itself after 9months, so too early to jump ship from AP1. Those not on any AP hardware, I can see the point in upgrading. But for me, I would wait for a dramatic change to jump.
My definition of dramatic change would be:
(1) true FSD (hopefully 3-5yrs from now)
(2) drastic reduction in charge time (e.g. 10mins gets us 200 miles - getting close to filling gas experience) - this is also likely 3-5yrs away, just speculations, but hopeful.
For me, any one of the above would be quite compelling to shell out $20-$40K for an upgrade. Likely these two would come around the same time. So it could be double bonanza. Also, pricing could be more competitive by then.
Until then, happy with AP1 for the most boring commute traffic (bumper to bumper) and drive myself for all other conditions.
My definition of dramatic change would be:
(1) true FSD (hopefully 3-5yrs from now)
(2) drastic reduction in charge time (e.g. 10mins gets us 200 miles - getting close to filling gas experience) - this is also likely 3-5yrs away, just speculations, but hopeful.
For me, any one of the above would be quite compelling to shell out $20-$40K for an upgrade. Likely these two would come around the same time. So it could be double bonanza. Also, pricing could be more competitive by then.
Until then, happy with AP1 for the most boring commute traffic (bumper to bumper) and drive myself for all other conditions.
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Electricfan
Active Member
Agree that Tesla should upgrade all HW 2 cars for free if necessary for FSD. Disagree they will actually do it. I would bet the farm they won't do it. They'll say whatever they deliver is good enough, first adopters pay, etc etc, then actually deliver FSD with more and different HW if needed.
As I said, "It is true, of course, that certain streets may be handled better or worse on both sides.".
But I have no problem with us elaborating further. I am aiming for facts and I think those reading the thread deserve them, not some vague (and possibly biased) interpretations of what AP2 is or isn't.
I will make two amended versions of my post to correct:
1) The IMO:
AnxietyRanger said:
2) The facts:
AnxietyRanger said:
On those available features:
Compared to AP1 cars, AP2 cars lack traffic sign detection and compliance, they lack adjacent lane object display, they lack object detection/identification on the instrument cluster, they probably lack pedestrian detection or at least identification, and they lack auto windshield wipers. There are also very likely other deficiencies in AP2's overall capability compared to the underlying MobilEye in AP1, simply given the lesser development time.
They only real, possible benefit on AP1 vs. AP2 at this time, that I can see, is that they have are practical differences in autosteer performance, which can swing to both ways. The performance of AP2 has not been constant either, given the recent history, so we don't quite know how it will go from here. AP1 is more of a known quantity.
And, of course, the most important difference: AP2 has future upgrade potential that AP1 does not have. However, for OP, the same can be said of any future Tesla purchase. The longer he waits, the more likely he will get even more future upgrade potential than by buying today - or at the very least, the same.
While I'm all for rear radars (and we know Tesla was planning/testing them too back in ~2015), AP2 does have the side cameras that can see backwards. They should be able to handle many lane change scenarios, though they can not see through a car like radar can.
AP2 does not yet use those backwards looking side cameras for anything (other than taking debug images), so they are still more theoretical...
Personally I think cameras are the better approach here. Regardless of whether or not rear side radar sees something, you still need to make the determination of whether it's in a lane of interest or not. That's inevitably going to be done through camera, and anything not visible to the side repeater camera / backup camera is probably not going to be a significant factor in the decision to change lanes.
But yeah, I wish they'd activate more cameras already!
I still think both would be best.
Radar could be useful in a curve, where seeing through a trailing car - e.g. a fast approaching car behind it - could be useful. If radar gives a hit, the car could decide to wait.
Same with rear-collision warning and reacting to situations where a car is approaching the trailing car from behind it. A camera can't see an object approaching too fast behind a trailing car, radar can. Radar is useful in the front, it would very well be useful in the back too.
. Add me to the list. I got the delivery of the AP1 car just days before Musk announced AP2 cars, and my car's future AP feature upgradability possibility took a nose dive. My good luck that AP1 is doing most of what Level2 autonomy would provide (not all the promises Telsa made, but most of what L2 would do), so I turned out to be lucky, and happy. Many with AP2 haven't got what was promised to be available a while ago, and IFF, Tesla announces HW3 in Oct this/next year (say with just 4 more radars - one on each corner of the car - just a theory/guess), suddenly AP2 owners would not get what was promised to them (full FSD). And the saga would continue.I fully agree with the notion that buy what you can see and feel today and whether you are happy with that, not rely on promise. More than AP future, I am personally more interested in battery technology enhancements which most likely cannot be s/w upgradeable. I am keeping my money until a significant battery technology upgrade happens (10mins charge to get 200miles).
Just my 2 cents.
I think AP2 is probably going to be different from AP1 story in the sense that AP2 probably will continue getting significant updates even after the guaranteed AP3 ships (or AP2.5 in Model 3...). The nature of the AP2 beast is just that different and any AP3 is very likely to be based on the same system, so AP2 would just continue as a subset of AP3... Now, full FSD was and is iffy, of course.
But given someone looking at upgrading... stick with AP1 for now is my recommendation. If AP3 comes tomorrow (or AP 2.5 which actually literally might come tomorrow), you would have rushed the upgrade to AP2 sort of in vain... you wouldn't get any benefit from AP2 vs. AP3, and for a while you might even be worse off than with AP1 you were...
Wait.
I should've said "drive then judge" and I only meant it wrt the claim that's it's "poor and dysfunctional." I agree no point in upgrading from an AP1 car right now. If you do not even own a Tesla however I'd buy AP2 without thinking twice.
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That would be reasonable if you drive a lot on the freeway.
Interesting reports by the way again:
2017.28 c528869
Severe lane hugging...
E.g. these comparisons of AP1 vs. AP2:
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