Is it time for Tesla to do traditional model years?

[bonnie]

Moderator note: Some posts moved to snippiness - Page 114.

Dissenting opinion is fine. Being rude towards other forum members is not. And if you're posting to say 'I don't know why I bother', may I suggest that you not bother the next time.

There are plenty of ways to disagree while treating others with respect.

Apologies to the innocent bystanders who were caught up in the move because of quoting.

 

[green1]

Autopilot was guessed because the sensors were visible on cars. Not because people were expecting Autopilot to be released now.

Elon himself has stated that by the end of the year you'd be able to drive from onramp to offramp without touching the controls. It was repeated on pretty much every car and news website. If you were caught off-guard you must have been hiding under a rock somewhere.

 

[Zythryn]

I'm a fan of the "release improvements as they are available.
Yes, it is disappointing to just miss out on something new. However, if Tesla did the "model year" bit and released a new model each summer as other companies, Tesla would have the AWD and driver assist stuff ready and wouldn't release it until next summer.

So for the original suggestion of going with the "traditional model year" method, I would vote no.

And for those saying that Tesla disappointed a lot of customers, yes, some customers were disappointed.
I would suggest a lot more are very happy though, and that just as many as were disappointed are absolutely thrilled that the car they ordered came with more stuff than they expected.

Is there a better way to handle it, perhaps, perhaps not.

 

[caddieo]

I do not think Tesla should follow the ICE practice of a yearly model change. Model changes and the name/designation change should be based on a set of technical developments that make the car significantly different from the current model - which means that it is not tied to the year. It could happen every 2, 4, 5, 8 (etc.) years depending on the rapidity of change. For instance, instead of tacking on the "D" to the end of the current model S designation, they could have called it the Model D instead - more so if there also had been some body shell or appearance change. Thus: D-60, D-85, D-P85, and D-P85+.

 

[breser]

Elon himself has stated that by the end of the year you'd be able to drive from onramp to offramp without touching the controls. It was repeated on pretty much every car and news website. If you were caught off-guard you must have been hiding under a rock somewhere.

No he did not. He said on June 28, 2014:

Autonomous driving will get rolled out into cars quite rapidly, in the next year or so. We want to get to the point where you can go from highway on-ramp to highway off-ramp completely autonomously, without touching any controls, in the next 12 months.

That's not by the end of the year, that's by June 2015 (and he said "year or so" which gives him significant wiggle room on that). I sure as heck didn't expect cars with end of September deliveries to have this feature. For one thing Elon is notorious for giving time frames that are wildly optimistic. I don't think anyone predicted this feature being available so soon, even people who assumed Elon was giving valid dates.

I love that they were able to move so much faster on this. But I still wish I'd gotten an email like this from my DS:

"We're moving your delivery up to Late September from Late October. The consequence of this is that some new features we plan to be rolling out soon will not be on this car. If this accelerated date or the new features would be a problem for you let me know and we can defer your delivery to Late October."

I might have chosen wrong and been disappointed, but at that point I'd have nobody to be disappointed in but myself. In this case Tesla made the choice for me.

 

[pzz]

I agree 100% - based on my calculations, I missed the new autopilot features by 2 days (my P85 was delivered on September 25th without the sensors). Still have sour taste in my mouth. I am willing to pay for a retrofit, but even this is not an option. Tesla will not do anything about it unless we make a big deal out of it. Maybe an online petition? Continuos improvements are fine unless you are the sucker that paid full price and did not get them and we are not talking about an iPhone or a iPad here, but a $100k+ purchase. I have few friends that are really interested in buying a Tesla and my advise to them was to wait few years until Tesla figures out how to keep their customers happy, because I am not a happy customer. I know many of you will argue with me, but the fact remains - I am not happy with my purchase, period!

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I agree with the first part - yes I got exactly what I have ordered. For background: I happened to miss the switch by 1 week. I ordered my car in June, there was no word about auto-pilot features back then. I got it delivered Sept 28th, there were some other people who ordered later than me, but picked up a few days earlier from the factory, while I had to wait for shipping to Toronto. So there is a comparison of customers:
a) Ordered earlier, not knowing anything about autopilot and got exactly what was ordered -- like myself
b) Ordered later, not knowing anything about autopilot, but got a some really cool extra features without paying extra for them and delivered earlier.

When you compare it this way, you cannot say it is fair. I have no problem with rolling out new features when ready and not doing the model-year dance. However, let's stick with the "you get what you ordered" system and then it is fair. I would have no bad feeling if autopilot was available only for people who ordered after the feature was announced. But waiting for the car production for 3.5 months and then missing a feature by 1 week completely outside my control just by sheer bad luck does not make me very happy customer.

Exactly, same situation here - my car was supposed to be delivered on September 29th, but because it was the end of the financial quarter, Tesla decided to ship my car earlier (September 25th pickup) and not include the new features. The bottom line is this - I am not a happy customer and it seems that Tesla is not doing anything about it.

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Baloney, nobody is saying Tesla needs to hold back a fully finished improvement. Tesla knew that autopilot functionality was coming, they had plenty of opportunity to adjust their ordering process and inform customers. They chose to hold back the announcement so they could combine it with the D announcement.

Announcing a feature in advance does not have to delay the release of the future.

Exactly!

 

[SteveW25561]

I would point out my original post in no way advocates a dealership model, and this is not an issue of sour grapes, wishing badness on others or stifling innovation. I am not uncomfortable with fast progress - I am a notorious early adopter and upgrade all my tech almost yearly, and even stopped to think about upgrading my one year old Model S after Thursday's announcements. Then, cooler heads prevailed and I'm holding off for now.

My original question about model years is simply about managing expectations. Expectations of resale values, retrofitting, upgrading, canceling or delaying orders, and even placing an order in the first place. But, as Tesla becomes a bigger and bigger player, the lack of at least some warning and a label for major platform upgrades will become an issue.

The long delay from order to delivery does mean there will always be a few owners who get caught in the new feature cross point. If Tesla had some notification of a pending update, it would manage these issues. A shorter order to delivery time would reduce but not eliminate this issue.

The latest D and autopilot upgrades are amazing, and come relatively early in a the car's life cycle. These are the biggest platform upgrades Tesla has done since the Model S was launched -- it made a major media launch event for it. I'm not advocating Tesla delay big updates, and I may have been too literal about a model YEAR (heck, even make quarterly updates!), just have a process in place to deal with and help customers anticipate major changes, and a way to designate these to future used car buyers.

The link noted in post 4 by sgblank nicely explores the up and downside of the continual improvement approach.

 

[green1]

just have a process in place to deal with and help customers anticipate major changes.

How about telling everyone months ahead of time what is going to be announced? making sure that dozens of major news outlets talk about it? having forums abuzz with the information for months ahead of the reveal? how about setting the expectation right from the time you found the company that you will be constantly innovating and that major changes will be a fact of life?

oh wait... they already do that...

The only other things they can do all involve limiting or slowing the release of new products or features. I for one would never wish for that.

 

[CHG-ON]

Nope. Continue to be different.

 

[Beavis]

Personally, I have no use for autopilot because I love to drive the car. Isn't that the point of buying such a fun car? Anyway, Telsa is just fine with the way they are doing things. It's all marketing. Look how much press they got out of this announcement. They wouldn't have gotten that if they unveiled their updated model at the Detroit Auto Show like everyone else. It's marketing genius.

 

[breser]

Personally, I have no use for autopilot because I love to drive the car. Isn't that the point of buying such a fun car? Anyway, Telsa is just fine with the way they are doing things. It's all marketing. Look how much press they got out of this announcement. They wouldn't have gotten that if they unveiled their updated model at the Detroit Auto Show like everyone else. It's marketing genius.

Could have gotten twice as much press if they'd done an Autopilot event in say June or July with cars starting to deliver in October. Followed by an event for AWD in October. Would have also probably spurred a lot of people who wanted those features to order back in that time frame. Hell they probably could have even charged for it as an option for a few months and made more money off it (essentially charging people to delay their orders to have it and thus give incentive to keep orders). Given that there are people who have the new sensors and 5.9 on their cars, at least some of the functionality has been done for a long time.

I agree this is good marketing on their part. But there's a reason that Apple doesn't announce all product refreshes at the same time and some products even refresh multiple times a year. Because they know they can get the buzz multiple times a year. And yes this announcement strategy is straight out of the Apple playbook. I just think they're doing an inferior job of it than Apple does.

 

[Beavis]

So we agree, no traditional model year.

 

[Bardlebee]

So guys, I was thinking. Would people be as pissed if they said models have had the autopilot since 2-3 months ago of production and it just wasn't enabled yet? I wonder if people would be as upset then, realizing they already got their car and people 6 months with their car may not be as upset. Maybe they should have let the rollouts go for another 2 months and not announce it until then.

 

[SteveW25561]

I like your idea of rolling out silent benefits in advance of the announcements: that would certainly reduce the angst of cusp orders. That, plus a shorter order-to-delivery window would minimize outcries.

Moving beyond under the hood changes, it'll be interesting how Tesla will handle the eventual external look change. Lets say the next cosmetic change in the model S is notably different, would people prefer to have a clue that it is coming? I can see an example of someone who really likes the look of the current car and then be dismayed that they can't get it when the website suddenly changes to a new style they don't like, on the actual day they finally decide to pull the trigger.

 

[Bardlebee]

I like your idea of rolling out silent benefits in advance of the announcements: that would certainly reduce the angst of cusp orders. That, plus a shorter order-to-delivery window would minimize outcries.

Moving beyond under the hood changes, it'll be interesting how Tesla will handle the eventual external look change. Lets say the next cosmetic change in the model S is notably different, would people prefer to have a clue that it is coming? I can see an example of someone who really likes the look of the current car and then be dismayed that they can't get it when the website suddenly changes to a new style they don't like, on the actual day they finally decide to pull the trigger.

I think if they change something like the exterior, they should hype it up with actual online facebook pictures and social media advertising in general 6 months prior to production. Anyone planning to get a Model S will then either wait or so they don't want to wait. I don't know if they would kill immediate sales though... perhaps 3 months out?

 

[ArtInCT]

I have read this thread with interest... Back in the 1960's (I date myself here) Austin-Healy came up with the MARK concept so there were Mark II's, III's and IV's... however the cars were attributed to a model year as well. I am not suggesting the MARK concept.... but rather the delivery date and list of options is most important.

Now for the Tesla S... it is important for owners to be exacting on the various options and features your car's have. I noticed on Ebay, over the last 3 days, that a SLEW of Tesla Model S's (Many P+ and P's) are hitting the auction block since the "DUELY" S was announced. Many Tesla S's (but not all) list all of the options that are in the car in "Testla Terminology" which is quite helpful for a buyer to figure out what is in the car.

It would be cool for Tesla to build a "SYSTEM INFO" page on the 17" display, that shows exactly the model, build date and features / options that were installed at the factory. One camera click could then capture this information.

I like the fact that Tesla rolls new features and functions out as they are available. I do "feel" for those who may miss an enabling bit of hardware that is crucial for the new feature or function... but some day, some entrepreneur will start a TESTLA upgrade garage if the demand is great enough.

BTW, I do not own a Tesla yet, and since the P85+ is dust in the wind... looks like my dream car is now the P85D....

I am BTW, NOT too impressed with the Tesla Design Center's coverage of "THE DUELY" and the fact that there are no pictures of the new P85D seats (I found some here on TMC) and that the FEATURES tab on the TESLA website just brings you to the Design Center.... I KNOW Tesla could do a better job with this.... but from what I have seen... communication is not their strongest attribute.

I think their marketing / communications director VP needs to step up or step out....

 

[Krugerrand]

I agree this is good marketing on their part. But there's a reason that Apple doesn't announce all product refreshes at the same time and some products even refresh multiple times a year.

Perhaps this will be news? Tesla isn't Apple, even if they chose to have Apple-like stores, via former Apple (and former Tesla) employee George Blankenship or chose to throw a party. Elon Musk isn't Steve Jobs, even if the media wants to compare them. Tesla also isn't GM, Ford or any other car manufacturer. Tesla isn't even Google. I know, shocker.

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I think their marketing / communications director VP needs to step up or step out....

VP of Communications, Simon Sproule, just left Tesla for Aston Martin. :wink: But to be fair, he'd only been in the job for a handful of months.

Not sure anymore who's VP of Marketing.