Is it time to reduce the price of Autopilot?

[Saghost]

As a matter of fact yes, it had a miles to empty and fuel consumption stats from current to last X miles, etc. Tons of ICE car have had it for years (and probably all ICE cars in Tesla price range). Yes it showed me gas stations, not only that, I could set the gas station as an additional destination, some Tesla owners can only dream about today (multi-waypoint navigation). It did show when they were open or closed. While it didn't show me how many cars were filling up at any moment, that doesn't matter when a fill up takes less than 5 minutes per cat and the next gas station is across the road.

If that impresses you, it's 2006 technology, so more than a decade ago!

Having a distance to empty and average mpg is nowhere close to the charge on arrival. A lot of places I've been there isn't a station across the street, and the nearest station will likely have the same problems as the current one.

Real range anxiety is driving through rural Utah at 3 a.m. on a weekend trying to find an open gas station.

 

[Asymmetry]

Worlds most Expensive DLC.

I'll wait till it becomes standard like superchargering port.

 

[P85Dave]

I feel these prices will be revised down when Tesla has more competition. Right now, there is virtually no competition

Just saw this:

Many, if not half, bigger modern manufacturers have EAP capability, including high and congestion...
And prices appear to drop. Nissan ProPilot might be the cheapest. Not sure.
All manufacturers, including Tesla, REQUIRES hands on the wheel.

Nice video. Does Volvo use MobileEye?

Given that Tesla AP1 was based on MobileEye state of the art 2014, I really wonder what their state of the art is now.

 

[P85Dave]

Here is an idea on how to charge for AP in the new cloud world - Pay-Per-Use. Hear me out here.

AP cost should have two options:

- Buy it outright for $5K - the same as what we have today

- Pay-Per-Use: In this method, you pay $0.50 for each mile of AP usage, which gives you 10k miles of AP driving to get to that $5K. There should be a cap of say $7K or 14k miles after which you own AP and you are not charged anymore.

Folks like me who LOVE AP, would know for certain that we easily do 14k miles of driving in AP in less than year. So we would go for the outright buy option. Others who are not sure, can turn it on just during the occasional highway driving and pay for how much ever they use, but remember if they get hooked onto it, they will end up paying $2k more to Tesla. its a win-win for both Tesla and the customer either way.

They could even split the cost as $0.30 for TACC and $0.50 for full AP.

Maybe they should have that as an OPTION for people who do not buy EAP.

It would feel wrong for me to buy a Tesla without EAP...

 

[gavine]

Here is an idea on how to charge for AP in the new cloud world - Pay-Per-Use. Hear me out here.

AP cost should have two options:

- Buy it outright for $5K - the same as what we have today

- Pay-Per-Use: In this method, you pay $0.50 for each mile of AP usage, which gives you 10k miles of AP driving to get to that $5K. There should be a cap of say $7K or 14k miles after which you own AP and you are not charged anymore.

Folks like me who LOVE AP, would know for certain that we easily do 14k miles of driving in AP in less than year. So we would go for the outright buy option. Others who are not sure, can turn it on just during the occasional highway driving and pay for how much ever they use, but remember if they get hooked onto it, they will end up paying $2k more to Tesla. its a win-win for both Tesla and the customer either way.

They could even split the cost as $0.30 for TACC and $0.50 for full AP.

This idea sounds good on paper, but in practice, I think a lot of people would hesitate to use it at $0.50 per mile. They would rationalize it and think for $10 on my commute today, I'd rather go out to lunch than pay $10 for Autopilot. Every time they go to use Autopilot, they would have to make a decision if it's worth it.

We do a 2,000 mile round trip vacation every year. I don't see myself spending $1,000 for autopilot on that trip. I realize it's only 20% of the cost of unlimited Autopilot, but given the option, I may decide to skip it when there are better things I can do with that $1000 on vacation. Or, I might only use it for the last leg of the drive when I'm feeling extra tired.

It's just different when you pay in advance and it's unlimited.

Overall, I think Tesla ends-up with more AP revenue in the pay-upfront model vs. pay-per-use.

 

[avoigt]

"Fine" is a relative term in the case of AP right now.

AP1 and 2 (EAP) do some of the same tasks differently, some are better with AP2 while others are worse.

AP2 still likes to hint at taking highway exits, making moves to the right and then bouncing back and forth a bit as it passes the exit. In the case of left-hand highway ramps, the car will more often than not opt for that left turn rather than staying in the current lane.

AP2 auto-lane change is still more aggressive than AP1, which makes it uncomfortable.

The $5,000 cost of the current AP iteration is based on what it may be able to do in the future (that future used to be 12/2016). It's current capabilities do not warrant a price that exceeds the $2,500 - $3,000 of AP1.

To answer the OP - no, it is not time for the price of Autopilot to drop - unfortunately. However I believe a price decrease is inevitable.

Well I understand your comment with regards to all the delays and the version that has been available until now but believe given the new update and the stunning performance not even on highways but on small winding roads with missing markings should be readjusted.

You will for the years to come always find a situation where AP does not behave as you want it to but thats just the nature of continues iterative improvements that are happening. So, patience is required. Given that AP is right now just only recommended for Autobahn I am very pleased to see how great it works on single roads since today.

Just review that two video, its really worth watching:

 

[jcdenton40]

Overall, I think Tesla ends-up with more AP revenue in the pay-upfront model vs. pay-per-use.

The two are not mutually exclusive. There's no reason both cannot be offered as options. Different pricing structures appeal to different people and is often an excellent way to maximize revenue.

As for Electroman's specific idea, obviously the $.50/mile figure was just made up on the spot and is obviously way too high. But that doesn't mean there isn't a number that would work (i.e. get people to use it without taking away too much from up-front sales). In any case, IMO far more realistic than a pay-per-mile option would be a subscription-based option which is time based instead of per-mile based.

 

[bob_p]

"The pricing for EAP & FSD should follow the typical technology curve. They will be more expensive initially when shipping in low volume, and go down in price over time, as the technology matures and volumes increase."

Except the hardware is already being included in all Tesla vehicles, which means they are already technically being shipped at maximum possible volume right now. Certainly there will be economies of scale as higher numbers of total Tesla vehicles are produced and sold, but regardless of how mature the technology is and regardless of how many people buy EAP or FSD, it will not have any effect on reducing the technology (hardware) costs.

"Even if EAP or FSD become part of the standard package, included at no additional cost, Tesla will likely maintain the pricing for activating these features previous cars. So anyone ordering a Tesla today without EAP or FSD should not expect Tesla to reduce the after delivery activation fee - and with FSD"

The way they handled the 60 -> 75 price reduction shows that this is not necessarily the case, and is very likely not the case. When the price difference between a 60 and a 75 was reduced, they also reduced the after-purchase price of the software unlocking from 60 -> 75 dramatically, from $5,000 to $2,000. So clearly they are willing to reduce upgrade costs after purchase, since they have already done so in the past year.

"there's a possibility they could increase the activation fee if hardware changes (such as a processor upgrade) are needed."

They've already said that if new hardware is needed, all upgrades will be performed at no cost. Not exactly the same as changing the activation fee, but I think that's an incredibly strong indicator that under such a scenario as what you described, they would be highly unlikely to increase the activation fee.

• Volume for EAP/FSD hardware will increase significantly once Model 3 is in full production. Assuming the AP2.x sensors are what Tesla will stay with in the long run, it's very likely the cost of those sensors will go down over time, as the sensor manufacturer finds ways to reduce costs. That's what we typically see with new technologies (like the dramatic price drops for HDTVs and 4K TVs - though smartphones seems to be resisting that curve so far...).
• While Tesla might offer a deal to activate EAP/FSD at a lower price, anyone ordering a S/3/X today shouldn't count on that. There are examples for Tesla offering deals for after delivery upgrades - and also maintaining the promised after delivery upgrade cost.
• Tesla has not made any official statement on what happens if hardware upgrades are required for AP 2.x cars. Anything provided my Tesla staff (service centers, stores, galleries, customer support, e-mail, ...) is unofficial. And anything Musk tweets or talks about is also not official (didn't he say we'd have AP2 at AP1 levels in December 2016? or what about the planned cross-country FSD demonstration - last year?).

We're all guessing about what will happen with EAP/FSD hardware or pricing in the future. For anyone who owns a Tesla, read your Purchase Agreement - and you'll see Tesla doesn't provide any details on what is being purchased (related to EAP/FSD) whether or not you've purchased EAP/FSD with the car. And the agreement makes the typical statement that any other representations (verbal, written, website, ...) are non-binding and that only the Purchase Agreement is binding.

As a long-time Tesla owner (on our 2nd Model S and a Model 3 soon), we're comfortable with this uncertainty. We purchased EAP/FSD with our S 100D and will do so with our Model 3, because we believe Tesla will (eventually) deliver the promised features - and if a hardware upgrade is needed, even though there isn't any written policy on what they will do, we believe they'll do something reasonable.

And we expect that Tesla will eventually lower the price of EAP/FSD or include it for free - that's what typically happens with new features as they shift from "emerging technology" to mainstream. Buy now - at higher cost and use the new features as soon as they are available - or wait until the technology matures and the prices come (way) down.

 

[Sawyer8888]

All manufacturers, including Tesla, REQUIRES hands on the wheel.

Entertaining video @arnis, however not all manufactueres require hands on the wheel...

Super Cruise - Hands Free Driving | Cadillac Ownership

 

[MagicMagicD]

I think that offering the package in parts would be a good start, so:

• TACC - $1500
• Autopark - $1000
• Summon - $500
• Autosteer - $3500 (includes TACC)

With that said, I do think they should offer TACC as standard at this point, but at the same time, I find it unlikely they will since they need as much capital as they can get while Model 3 is still ramping.

I'm in a similar position to the OP though in that my commute is all windy local roads where AP just doesn't work well, hence I declined the option... sadly they still enabled it (and are charging me for it) and I've been trying to get the situation resolved since I picked up the car in December...

 

[Electroman]

sadly they still enabled it (and are charging me for it)

What?? You mean to say they tagged on $5K to your invoice and you didn't notice it, and you realized that you paid an extra $5K only after delivery?

 

[MagicMagicD]

What?? You mean to say they tagged on $5K to your invoice and you didn't notice it, and you realized that you paid an extra $5K only after delivery?

It's on finance so the monthly repayment was about (£50) $65 more, but since it was a few months between placing the order and taking delivery, I couldn't remember the exact number.

 

[bob_p]

Since enabling TACC is a software feature (because all new Tesla cars have the AP2.x hardware included), Tesla has a lot of flexibility on how they bundle TACC.

They could separate it out - and make it a software upgradable feature - that could be enabled for a fraction of the EAP price. They could include it as part of the Premium Upgrade Package (for the Model 3?) or make it part of the standard package (for the more expensive S & X).

This is a feature that could be impacted based on what other manufacturers are doing in comparably priced EVs. What does the Bolt have? And what will the new S/X competitors have when they start coming out later this year?