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Is it worth for US Teslas to have Type 2 inlet?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Bipo, Dec 10, 2013.

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Is it worth to switch to Type 2 inlet for US Teslas?

  1. Yes

    22.0%
  2. Yes but now it's too late

    19.5%
  3. No

    58.5%
  1. Bipo

    Bipo Member

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    #1 Bipo, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    Given the fact that Japanese Model S will have a Type 2 inlet... Would make sense that also US cars switch to this socket? That means a single plug for every Model S all over the world, and additionally that US cars would be compatible with 3-phase charging.

    If the decision is taken soon, it wouldn't be very expensive. It will be necessary to change every SC plug and every US Model S inlet, but there are not so many... 20.000? The sooner the cheaper.

    What do you think? :)

    US inlet:

    64ty2CF.png


    EU Type 2 inlet:

    6J646cm.png
     
  2. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Wow. A three-way split as I vote.

    I think harmonization is a good thing and am curious why Tesla chose different standards in the first place.
     
  3. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    I don't think there was (or is) any standard that fit all of Tesla's requirements. They didn't want to have one inlet for AC charging and a second inlet for DC charging, and they didn't want the franken-connector. Note that the standard Type 2 connector doesn't support the current required for supercharging, so Tesla has tweaked it in some way. As to why they didn't start with Type 2 in the first place, I think they just didn't consider 3-phase charging back then.
     
  4. CalDreamin

    CalDreamin Member

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    #4 CalDreamin, Dec 10, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
    The poll question is confusing. North American Model S already have a "Type 2" connector.

    What the OP is calling "Type 2" is the Mennekes plug that is common in Europe. To my knowledge, EV charging stations with the Mennekes connector don't exist anywhere in North America, so I don't see the logic for Tesla to sell cars with the Mennekes charging plug in North America.

    The "Type 2" standard in North America is SAE J1772. Tesla's North America plug has the same communications protocol as SAE J1772, though with a different arrangement of pins. So a cheap and simple adapter makes North American Model S compatible with SAE J1772 type 2 chargers. Tesla said that their North American supercharger communications protocol is compatible with the SAE DC fast charging standard, CCS (Frankenplug), which is an extension of SAE J1772. This suggests that a relatively simple adapter will allow Model S to charge at CCS DC charging stations, when/if the latter become common. I believe JB Straubel also said that the Model S charging connector is capable of higher DC charging rates than the SAE CCS plug, so Tesla has more upside potential for higher charging rates in the future.

    I think Tesla chose the right path for North American Model S charging.
     
  5. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    Why bother? Keep what works. Switching to a new connector will cost Tesla money versus maintaining the status quo, with no benefit to switching. Makes no sense in my opinion.
     
  6. Mark Petersen

    Mark Petersen Model S EU P71

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  7. CalDreamin

    CalDreamin Member

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    Hi Mark, OK I see your point. I mixed up "level" and "type".

    SAE J1772 defines Level 1 (110V AC), Level 2 (200-240V AC), and Level 3 (fast DC) charging standards. There are over 6000 Level 2 J1772 public charging stations in the U.S. Mennekes charging stations do not exist in North America. Why would Tesla put a Mennekes plug on cars it sells in the U.S. when Mennekes charging stations don't exist here?
     
  8. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I don't see any reason to change in the US.

    I still think the Type 2 connector is far better then the Type 1 connector in terms of quality, but there is no point in changing now anymore.

    US cars will never drive on the EU roads and vise versa (except for the imports ofcourse).
     
  9. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    There weren't any Model S charging stations either, until Tesla made them. I think it would have made a lot of sense for Tesla to use the Mennekes inlet on all cars from the beginning, but it doesn't make sense for them to switch now.
     
  10. PokerBroker

    PokerBroker Member

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    Pretty normal for electronics to have different plugs in different countries.
     
  11. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #11 stopcrazypp, Dec 11, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2013
    Are we even 100% certain that the production Japanese version will have such a port? Yes the one on display in Japan had it, but we all know how things can change when production comes. And I'm fairly certain the display car was not the production one (for example it's not RHD).

    And the question of Type 1 vs Type 2 is simply three phase or no three phase. In the US, there is and probably will not be any significant three phase charging infrastructure, so there's no advantage to switching.
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    You might want to show some sizing information. The US plug looks significantly non-gigantified IMO.
     
  13. ZBB

    ZBB Emperor

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    You can ask that same question about the Tesla proprietary design... So why did Tesla design their own connector instead of using J1772 / Type 1?

    The Tesla connector is nice and all, but it is a bit surprising that they didn't just use Mennekes / Type 2 globally. Would have been fewer parts to change out for different region production...
     
  14. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    I think the rationale for Japan to use Type 2 is that they are already making RHD with Type 2 for UK, so just make all the RHD cars Type 2. Does Australia have any meaningful charging infrastructure? Does Japan have any rules against adapters like they do in EU?
     
  15. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    They designed their own connector because they didn't like J1772 DC (with its extra pins taking up more space). J1772 DC was designed the way it was because of backwards compatibility concerns, but obviously Tesla doesn't have that concern (as Tesla uses an adapter strategy).

    Also keep in mind that when the Model S was under development, neither J1772 DC nor Mennekes was fully ready yet.
     

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