Is level 1 charging a viable long-term option?

[Wanderer]

Any chance setting up level 2 charging somewhere else on the property other than the garage that would be less labor and cost intensive? You could always level 1 charge in the garage overnight or for the days you're home, but level 2 when you know you'll need to charge 6X faster.

That occurred to me, but I cannot think of another location to install it considering the layout of the house, garage, driveway and street. In my case, it makes more sense to use level 1 charging in the garage overnight for the days I am home and spend 20 minutes to top off at a nearby supercharger on days I need an extra charge.

 

[Wanderer]

But I mentioned a question of conduit so they could pull another phase for the 2nd line of 120v power.

Phase A & B for the 240v NEMA 6-20 Tesla charging
Phase (A or B) & neutral for the 120v NEMA 5-20 normal garage outlet.

Essentially in my garage my subpanel has both a 240v plug to charge my Tesla and another breaker in it to a 120v plug to charge our Volt.

That would be ideal for me, but not sure if it can be done as it is unclear where the conduit is and whether we can pull another wire. I would expect to run into the same problem I have with a level 2 charger: the house is too far from the garage and we would need to add a 95ft long trench which turns out to be very expensive. I appreciate the thinking, though, and will continue to lookout for options.

 

[Wanderer]

@Cheburashka is right that you can draw 16A from your 15A receptacles since they are wired to a 20A breaker (I am assuming that the electrician did it correctly and used 20A wire, and for a garage built in 2019, that’s a very safe bet). You’d use something like this along with the Tesla 5-20 adapter.

But it is really easy to replace one of your garage receptacles with a 20A receptacle. Just flip off the breaker first. Btw, by code, the garage receptacles should be GFCI protected which could be by a GFCI breaker or by a GFCI receptacle.

I probably will start with just using the 5-20, charging at 16A and see how that works for me. I can then potentially look at upgrading to 6-20 in the future if it is feasible in my setup. If I can get to 6-20 that would be ideal and would be sufficient for me, I am just not sure how feasible and safe it is considering my configuration and how it would impact the other outlets in my garage.

The one remaining issue I have is that I have a Gen 1 mobile charger and I cannot find any 5-20 adapters for my mobile charger. Tesla only appears to be Selling Gen 2 adapters. I could, of course, just buy a Gen 2 mobile charger if needed (still much less expensive than doing a Level 2 installation), but does anyone know if I can get a Gen 1 mobile charger 5-20 adapter anywhere?

 

[Cosmacelf]

I probably will start with just using the 5-20, charging at 16A and see how that works for me. I can then potentially look at upgrading to 6-20 in the future if it is feasible in my setup. If I can get to 6-20 that would be ideal and would be sufficient for me, I am just not sure how feasible and safe it is considering my configuration and how it would impact the other outlets in my garage.

The one remaining issue I have is that I have a Gen 1 mobile charger and I cannot find any 5-20 adapters for my mobile charger. Tesla only appears to be Selling Gen 2 adapters. I could, of course, just buy a Gen 2 mobile charger if needed (still much less expensive than doing a Level 2 installation), but does anyone know if I can get a Gen 1 mobile charger 5-20 adapter anywhere?

Ugh. I couldn’t even find that adapter on eBay! What gen 1 adapters do you have now? You can always make a homemade nema 14-50 to nema 5-20 (or 5-15) pigtail, and then just tell your car to only charge at 16A (instead of the 40A it will want to otherwise with a 14-50).

 

[ATPMSD]

then just tell your car to only charge at 16A (instead of the 40A it will want to otherwise with a 14-50).

This is not a good idea. You should not use the car to limit charging rate. This is fine every now and then if needed, but not as a routine solution.

 

[NewbyMaybe]

An RV store might have a 110v plug that adapts to your charger plug. If that's a bad idea someone here will inform.

Having a 2nd gen charger is a good idea because the original could quit on you.

 

[scottf200]

But I mentioned a question of conduit so they could pull another phase for the 2nd line of 120v power.

Phase A & B for the 240v NEMA 6-20 Tesla charging
Phase (A or B) & neutral for the 120v NEMA 5-20 normal garage outlet.

Essentially in my garage my subpanel has both a 240v plug to charge my Tesla and another breaker in it to a 120v plug to charge our Volt.

That would be ideal for me, but not sure if it can be done as it is unclear where the conduit is and whether we can pull another wire. I would expect to run into the same problem I have with a level 2 charger: the house is too far from the garage and we would need to add a 95ft long trench which turns out to be very expensive. I appreciate the thinking, though, and will continue to lookout for options.

@Wanderer , so does that mean you do have conduit as code in your area? ( vs romex ) -- you would easily see this if you had any place with open wall cavity where you could see the 1/2" conduit/EMT or romex (~3 wires in "plastic" sheathing) ... ie basement / unfinished garage / etc.

I asked because if you had existing conduit then you would not need to add another but just pull more 12 gauge wire(s) thru the existing one.

You can fit a lot of 12 gauge wire in 1/2" even.

 

[beatle]

• A 20A breaker for the garage outlets (I find two times two outlets in the garage)
• A 20A breaker for the garage doors
• A 15A breaker for the garage lights

Currently, none of the receptacles in the garage are 5-20. However, if I understand correctly it may be possible to change one of the outlets to a 5-20 receptacle, assuming the wiring is the right gauge, to get 16A which would be an improvement.

Depending on how much you value your garage outlets, you could convert one to a 6-20 and abandon the other in a junction box. In my garage, most of the time I use a couple of cord reels mounted to my ceiling for electric if I need to run a buffer, charge a battery, etc. These plug into the duplex outlets where my garage door openers are. I did install a dedicated circuit for a couple of receptacles on my garage's back wall, but I find it's just not all that useful, and pulling the cord down from the ceiling is more convenient since I have to use an extension cord for most garage tools anyway. Or you may be able to get power from the light switch for some additional 120v receptacles.

 

[ewoodrick]

I agree that it is not rated for this. However there is also no way a modern 15a receptacle isn't built to take 20a.

I've been using this setup daily for 2 years without issue.

I do agree I should probably change the outlet to a 20a but haven't gotten around to it.

It sounds like OP is in the same situation as me. Newer construction, everything rated 20A. I bet his wiring is 12 gauge too just like mine. Common in newer builds.

Sure there is. As companies face bigger cost reduction pressures, little things like the width or the depth of the connectors become big things once you make millions of things.

Let's look at the NEMA 14-50 socket, which many EV owners have installed. There's a relatively large failure of them not being able to carry their RATED current, let alone a higher current.

And if the circuit is rated for 20A, then why didn't the installer install 15/20A sockets?

There's a LOT of things that go into the rating of sockets that most people don't think about. One of the simplest is can it carry the rated load after 1,000 plug/unplug cycles? How hot does it get?

"Common Sense" is what burns houses down, as compared to scientific and real-world experience.

 

[ewoodrick]

But I mentioned a question of conduit so they could pull another phase for the 2nd line of 120v power.

Phase A & B for the 240v NEMA 6-20 Tesla charging
Phase (A or B) & neutral for the 120v NEMA 5-20 normal garage outlet.

Essentially in my garage my subpanel has both a 240v plug to charge my Tesla and another breaker in it to a 120v plug to charge our Volt.

They shouldn't allow mixing of 120V and 240V circuits on the same feeds. In your example, it sounds like it will trip the breaker if both the Tesla and Volt are charging at the same time. One leg would go overcurrent and cause the breaker to trip, knocking both legs offline.

 

[scottf200]

They shouldn't allow mixing of 120V and 240V circuits on the same feeds. In your example, it sounds like it will trip the breaker if both the Tesla and Volt are charging at the same time. One leg would go overcurrent and cause the breaker to trip, knocking both legs offline.

Wait ... what? The main panel in peoples home are fed by two phases and there are a variety of 240v and 120v circuits. The phases are not perfectly balanced for everything that is running in homes. Similarly, when you have a garage/etc subpanel you can have a reasonable split of 240v and 120v circuits. My subpanel has been in use for 7-ish years as are 1000s of others with EVs. If there are concerns about what may be on the 120v then a 1/2" conduit can handle several 12g wires and the 240v could be separated from the 120 (ie. two phase A and one phase B).

 

[ucmndd]

They shouldn't allow mixing of 120V and 240V circuits on the same feeds.

How exactly would you propose disallowing this? Silly suggestion.

 

[ThomasD]

What would it cost to just have 200 AMP service to the garage? How far is your garage from the nearest electric pole?

 

[Wanderer]

What would it cost to just have 200 AMP service to the garage? How far is your garage from the nearest electric pole?

I honestly think that would be the best solution. It give me the most flexibility and upgradeability and that way I can also use a different electric supplier with a better rate for charging. The only problem is that I am told by a number of people that my local electrical provider, PECO, does not tend to add services for this type of situations when you request it.

 

[ewoodrick]

How exactly would you propose disallowing this? Silly suggestion.

You don't which is why code doesn't allow it to be done.

 

[wws]

Ugh. I couldn’t even find that adapter on eBay! What gen 1 adapters do you have now? You can always make a homemade nema 14-50 to nema 5-20 (or 5-15) pigtail, and then just tell your car to only charge at 16A (instead of the 40A it will want to otherwise with a 14-50).

Double ugh. Tesla doesn't seem to be offering any Gen 1 adapters in the web store anymore. I've been meaning to order that Gen 1 5-20 adapter for ages, but haven't. (I have both a Gen 1 and Gen 2 UMC.) Even evseadapters isn't listing one. But I bet they could make one up upon request.

 

[Rocky_H]

Double ugh. Tesla doesn't seem to be offering any Gen 1 adapters in the web store anymore. I've been meaning to order that Gen 1 5-20 adapter for ages, but haven't. (I have both a Gen 1 and Gen 2 UMC.) Even evseadapters isn't listing one. But I bet they could make one up upon request.

They revamped their website, so it was harder to find them, but they do have a few Gen1 adapters. Some are out of stock though. But yes, they can probably make a few other kinds of those if you contact them.

Adapters For Tesla Model S & Model X Gen 1 (2012-2017)

Made exclusively by EVSE Adapters, these adapters plug right in to the Gen 1 UMC which was provided with every Tesla Model S and Model X delivered prior to December 15th 2017. Just like Tesla’s own adapters, our Gen 1 charging adapters also automatically set the correct charging current – simply...

www.evseadapters.com

 

[ewoodrick]

Double ugh. Tesla doesn't seem to be offering any Gen 1 adapters in the web store anymore. I've been meaning to order that Gen 1 5-20 adapter for ages, but haven't. (I have both a Gen 1 and Gen 2 UMC.) Even evseadapters isn't listing one. But I bet they could make one up upon request.

Surprised that it doesn't exist after the new adapter has been out for 5 years?

 

[Rocky_H]

Surprised that it doesn't exist after the new adapter has been out for 5 years?

I'm still using my Gen1 UMC. That would be frustrating for them to discontinue selling adapters for it so soon. The old ones that people already own don't magically transform themselves into the newer version when it gets released.

 

[wws]

Surprised that it doesn't exist after the new adapter has been out for 5 years?

It doesn't bother me too much, because I have the 5-20 adapter for my Gen 2 UMC. But we almost always use the Gen 1 UMC because it supports a full 40 amps (when plugged into a 14-50). So I should have purchased the 5-20 when it was available. I have most of the other Gen 1 adapters.

Perhaps evseadapters will pick up the slack.