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Is model S right for me?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Rozakk, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. Rozakk

    Rozakk Member

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    Hi I was trying to figure out if my condo has the proper charging stations for the model S. Are there specific settings/information I should look for? I am pretty naive on the topic. Also, if the car can only be charged a few hours every few days, will that be manageable still or does it need to be plugged in more often? I am looking at around 30-40 miles on average per day of commute.

    Also, does anyone have any information from tesla or anywhere else regarding the expected wear on the battery life? Like an approximate % or number of miles one can expect to lose with each year? And if tesla has any cutoff at which they will replace the battery under warranty?


    Thanks for any help!
     
  2. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Tesla's site has a bunch of good information on what you need.

    30-40 miles of average commute can easily be charged with a 240V outlet overnight, even with lower amperage. A NEMA 14-50 outlet can charge that in just over an hour, so you won't have a big problem.

    There are multiple ways to approach this... you can either try to approach this by convincing the condo association to put in public charging stations that would be available to you, or you can treat this as a private charging outlet for your use.

    If they go for the public approach, they'll likely want to contract with someone to install some charging stations, or do it themselves. These would likely be installed on the "general purpose" meters, and they may want to charge for their use.

    If you want the private approach, you'll need to see whether your HOA, or whatever governing board your condo uses, will permit you to have a 240v outlet installed at your designated parking space. Then you'll likely have to contact an electrician to see if a NEMA 14-50 outlet can be installed, from your power meter, so that you are charged for it directly. Depending upon how the electric facilities are run and how your condo units are structured, this may range from rather inexpensive to very, very expensive.
     
  3. tdiggity

    tdiggity Member

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    #3 tdiggity, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2012
    More info for a Bay Area brother.

    I'm currently doing this. It's a long process, start EARLY or you will be infor a bad time.

    A private install is the most optimal because a public station may end up costing you in other ways such as power with a % on top. Most companies that install a public charger will also charge crazy electricity rates which nullify your not-using-gas-savings. Too much to talk about regarding this subject.

    For a private install, check this bill out: Bill Text - SB-880 Common interest developments: electric vehicle charging stations. it basically says that the hoa cannot deny you a charging port for dumb reasons. It also says that the hoa must approve the request within 60 days so they cannot string you along.

    Some random bullet points:
    * Be ready to pay $1000-5000 for this install. Depends on how far your car is from the electricity closet.
    * depending on how many units are in your complex, a vote to install public chargers won't pass. There aren't enough people interested in EVs to get a 51% vote. No one would want to pay for it.
    * upgrading any common equipment probably won't pass either.
    * speak with your hoa president and ask him for his thoughts. He may already have had people approach him about EVs. You want the board on your side. SB 880's 60 day clause is more of a last resort. Legal battles suck.
    * get an electrician to come on site to do an evaluation. You can ask solar city, they are doing my condo.
    * ask the electrician these things:
    ** cost to install off my own power. You may need a panel upgrade
    ** can you install off of common building power? If so how many EVs can it support? Cost of upgrading common panel? And separately meter these ports. For example, lets say that the building can support 10 vehicles without upgrading the panel. You could argue that there is no need to upgrade until we reach max capacity. You may never reach capacity due to no interest in EVs. But if you do reach capacity, then putting the upgrade to a vote has a much better chance of passing.

    You're basically getting all the info necessary for the hoa to make a decision. Remember, you want to avoid anything that would cost the other owners money. It wouldn't hurt to ask other owners to see what their thoughts were, just maybe they would be on board. Flasher probably has a better idea of what an upgrade would cost to support 25, 50 or more EVs would be. It'd probably be stupid to install a port for every owner due to costs, but some HOAs would say this is the only way to go.

    Anyway, good luck. PM me if you need more detail. I've been dealing with this for 2 months and I'm at the home stretch. If you have a backup plan, you should research that in parallel.
     
  4. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    Thanks tdiggity. I will never purchase a home subject to an HOA, so I don't have experience (although I've heard the horror stories) of dealing with the issues associated therein.
     
  5. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Also when you install at the panel make sure you have access to any and all breaker switches that supply power to the car. Sometimes the main main boxes end up in locked closets or the local panels have locks.
    Keep everything to the car super well labeled. You may have a friend borrow the plug and if the breakers pop good markings make it easier to find the source.
     
  6. tdiggity

    tdiggity Member

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    I think code says that the breaker must be near by. But definitely a good thing to ask for.
     
  7. Rozakk

    Rozakk Member

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    Thanks for the info! A few more details -
    my condo already has two charging stations in their garage. I will try to find out if it's nema50.

    So I should mention - I don't have my own parking space. I rent a space from someone and so they will not be installing a private station at their spot I'm pretty sure - not even sure that is allowed in our building.

    But there are two general use charging stations. I am pretty sure the valet only will be the ones to do the charging.

    Is it pretty straightforward or anything specific I need to warn them about?
     
  8. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    My advice would be to determine how fast they charge -- what voltage / amps they can handle. A 208V, 30A J1772 charging station (typical for condo environments) will charge your car at 6 kW, roughly 18 miles per hour it's on the charger. That seems reasonable for your estimated driving habits.

    You'll use the J1772 adapter supplied with the Model S to charge.
     
  9. Rozakk

    Rozakk Member

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    Hi again - thanks for the information all! I have some updates


    Good news - I think the chargers are compatible with the model s, and there's no real competition for their use currently. Can someone verify if this will work, speed it may charge etc or need more info?
    Coulomb technologies ct 2002
    I/O 208/240VAC 60hz 30A


    The really bad news - in order to be fair to the residents, the charging cost is set at the peak rate, no matter what time. So in sf where I am at that is 97cent per kwh!! That seems high - how high is that going to amount to as far as charging the car and do you think I have any recourse? Thanks again!
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Wow. That may even be more expensive than gas. Are you sure it's not something like 37 cents/kWh? That would be over $80 for a full 85 kWh range charge.
     
  11. Zextraterrestrial

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    wholly S... that is Expensive. I knew SF was bad , Humboldt is bad too but not as bad!! @ $0.97/ kWhr it is almost cheaper to buy gas

    $80 for 180- 230 - miles in a Model S at that rate (my guesstimate based on driving style and roads)
     
  12. keys

    keys Member

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    That is insane, electricity cost 5 to 10 ct per kWh. Even in the [expensive] Netherlands we pay 25 max. Are you sure that's what you pay?
     
  13. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    My "all-in" peak rate (delivery, taxes etc.) is 18.4 cents/kWh in the suburbs of Toronto, Canada.
     
  14. Rozakk

    Rozakk Member

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    Wow I am furious, this seems like money-gouging. I know that san francisco and pg&e are expensive but it seems this rate is nowhere in anyone's ballpark! Does anyone in SF have a tesla or know the usual rates here?
     
  15. patp

    patp Member

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    In Québec, we're lucky:

    First 30 kWh/day 5.32 ¢/kWh
    Remaining energy consumption 7.51 ¢/kWh

    However it's cold as hell during winter ;)
     
  16. Rozakk

    Rozakk Member

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    #16 Rozakk, Jan 7, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2013
    Price gouging on charging stations at my condo - is there anything I can do?

    So I have been told by Chargepoint that the 4 charging stations in my building in San Francisco are overseen by the building management of my condo. The rate is set at 97cents/kWh at all times. Apparently chargepoint themselves have no control over the rate. Building management says the contract was already negotiated and is a set fixed rate with no plans to change.

    This is absolutely ridiculous in my opinion. As there is only one other electric vehicle in the building (And that a karma which I never see being charged there) I don't think the issue has arisen yet. However this will likely impact my decision to even purchase a model S.

    I have spent sometime looking at other local rates, including within parking garages which also charge premium rates - and the highest I have seen anywhere else is 47c/mile. It is clear to me that the current rate is unacceptable.

    Is there anything I can do, from a legal standpoint, to get this changed? Even for San Francisco, which is a pretty unreasonable city, this seems like too much
     
  17. steve841

    steve841 Active Member

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    Condo folks are getting a kickback... And if they won't allow you to install your own outlet (assuming its even logistically possible), then you'll know for sure.

    Sometimes capitalism isn't great.. But if you can avoid using it and encourage others to boycott the charging station, then my guess is the price will be dropped.
     
  18. jomo25

    jomo25 P4398

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    97 cents per kWh is ridiculous. NOt sure what you can do though. Is this the HOA telling you this? If not, then I'd ask them to help out. If it is the HOA, you may ask them to explain the rate.

    And just for clarity, they are asking 97c/kWh, not 0.97c/kWh.
     
  19. Rozakk

    Rozakk Member

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    thanks oops changed it to 97c/kwH.

    I've been in touch with an HOA rep, apparently it's not coming from the HOA but from the building management. I haven't figured out what to say just yet. I am going to send a list of comparable rates nearby and see what happens I guess.
     
  20. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Not sure who told you it's 97 cents/kWh. Just pulled this TOU rate card from PG&E's web site and rates seem to range from 13 to 49 cents depending on season and time of day.
     

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