Is NEMA 14-50 AND Tesla Wall Connector a good idea?

[JustABill]

Does anyone install Tesla Wall Connector AND NEMA 14-50 (or 6-50) outlet? Seems that this would either require 100A total dedicated current from breaker box OR somehow add a NEMA plug to the Tesla Wall Connector so that we have to go through the NEMA plug regardless. My electrician was saying this is what some people do but maybe there was a misunderstanding?

Is it relatively easy to convert TWC to NEMA 14-50 and vice-versa ? Seems like it is from what I've read.

Thank you!

 

[jcanoe]

The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector is designed to be hard wired (no plug) into the circuit that will be used. Anything else, i.e. a 14-50 power plug is not specified as an option in the Wall Connector installation guide so the plug would not be compliant with the electrical code. (Your electrician should know this.) Some people go ahead and install the plug but the Wall Connector can only operate at the maximum of 48 amps when charging if hard wired into a 60 amp 240V circuit.

Why do you believe a 100 amp circuit would be required? The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector is configured via a BT connection and your phone, tablet or laptop computer. The Gen3 Tesla Wall Connector can be configured for use on either 120V or 240V circuit rated between 15 amps and 60 amps. The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector can support automatic load balancing where 2 or more Wall Connectors are charging at the same time.

 

[JustABill]

The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector is designed to be hard wired (no plug) into the circuit that will be used. Anything else, i.e. a 14-50 power plug is not specified as an option in the Wall Connector installation guide so the plug would not be compliant with the electrical code. (Your electrician should know this.) Some people go ahead and install the plug but the Wall Connector can only operate at the maximum of 48 amps when charging if hard wired into a 60 amp 240V circuit.

Why do you believe a 100 amp circuit would be required? The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector is configured via a BT connection and your phone, tablet or laptop computer. The Gen3 Tesla Wall Connector can be configured for use on either 120V or 240V circuit rated between 15 amps and 60 amps. The Tesla Gen3 Wall Connector can support automatic load balancing where 2 or more Wall Connectors are charging at the same time.

50A for 14-50 + 50A for TWC = 100A if both are run independently. So are you saying that if I installed both with 50A breaker and 50A wiring from breaker box then I plugged something into the 14-50 the TWC could figure out how much current the 14-50 is taking?

My concern would be drawing 50A from both the TWC and 14-50 at the same time which would be too heavy a load unless 100A breaker + wiring was included.

 

[JustABill]

50A for 14-50 + 50A for TWC = 100A if both are run independently. So are you saying that if I installed both with 50A breaker and 50A wiring from breaker box then I plugged something into the 14-50 the TWC could figure out how much current the 14-50 is taking?

My concern would be drawing 50A from both the TWC and 14-50 at the same time which would be too heavy a load unless 100A breaker + wiring was included.

Rough text schematic showing 100A total current

Grid - 200A house main breaker -- 50A breaker --- NEMA 14-50
\
-- 50A breaker --- TWC

 

[JustABill]

Rough text schematic showing 100A total current

Grid - 200A house main breaker -- 50A breaker --- NEMA 14-50
\
-- 50A breaker --- TWC

oops my space characters didn't show up. I'm trying to show 2 separate 50A connections - one to TWC, one to NEMA 14-50

 

[jcanoe]

oops my space characters didn't show up. I'm trying to show 2 separate 50A connections - one to TWC, one to NEMA 14-50

Why do you need both a 14-50 receptacle and a hard-wired Wall Connector? Are you planning on charging more than one EV at a time?

 

[ATPMSD]

It sounds like you are trying to install a Wall Connector for car charging and also having a 14-50 for other purposes, such as for an RV, Welder, etc. If this the case each requires a dedicated circuit.

Option 1: run two circuits from your main breaker

Option 2: run a circuit from the main breaker to a sub-panel and then two circuits from there, one to the Wall Connector and one to the 14–50 outlet. If you run a 100A circuit to the subpanel you can run a 50A circuit to the Wall Connector and a 2nd 50A circuit to the 14-50 outlet.

BTW you will need a GFCI breaker for the circuit to the 14-50 outlet; a standard breaker will be used for the Wall Connector circuit.

 

[animorph]

Two WC's would allow near total flexibility in amperages if you swapped circuit breakers appropriately. We use two power sharing WC's for our two Teslas.

If you want to charge a non-Tesla then that may not be a good solution.

 

[STS-134]

It sounds like you are trying to install a Wall Connector for car charging and also having a 14-50 for other purposes, such as for an RV, Welder, etc. If this the case each requires a dedicated circuit.

Even if you want to also use the 14-50 for car charging, it requires a dedicated circuit. Electrical code does not care what the 14-50 is used for. It does not matter if it's only a 1 car garage and you could only charge one car at a time in there. WC + 14-50 requires two dedicated circuits.

 

[JustABill]

oops my space characters didn't show up. I'm trying to show 2 separate 50A connections - one to TWC, one to NEMA 14-50

Oh and Thank you very much!!!

 

[ATPMSD]

Even if you want to also use the 14-50 for car charging, it requires a dedicated circuit. Electrical code does not care what the 14-50 is used for. It does not matter if it's only a 1 car garage and you could only charge one car at a time in there. WC + 14-50 requires two dedicated circuits.

Yes, a dedicated circuit is required for each circuit no matter what it is used for.

 

[JustABill]

Thank you so much for all the replies. I'm having second thoughts about my first electrician choice (they did a great job on my solar but they seem less knowledgeable about EV chargers). I'm leaning now towards just getting a 14-50 installed - I think that's the most future proof way to go. I think at some point all the charger ports on EV's will be standardized (although who knows - Apple still uses lightning cable so maybe Tesla is a big enough gorilla to have a proprietary standard and everyone else will have to add adapters).

Thank you so much! You've cleared up some of my misunderstandings. I'm looking forward to ordering my Model Y soon.

 

[STS-134]

Thank you so much for all the replies. I'm having second thoughts about my first electrician choice (they did a great job on my solar but they seem less knowledgeable about EV chargers). I'm leaning now towards just getting a 14-50 installed - I think that's the most future proof way to go. I think at some point all the charger ports on EV's will be standardized (although who knows - Apple still uses lightning cable so maybe Tesla is a big enough gorilla to have a proprietary standard and everyone else will have to add adapters).

Thank you so much! You've cleared up some of my misunderstandings. I'm looking forward to ordering my Model Y soon.

Actually a 14-50 limits you to 40A of charging (80% of capacity for continuous loads, and EV charging is a continuous load), and isn't really future proof in that sense. Most future proof is to run a cable that can handle 100A (80A continuous) because J1772 supports up to 80A of charging, and some vehicles like old Model S vehicles with dual OBCs, Rivians, and Lucids do have 80A OBCs in their vehicles. Modern Tesla vehicles use a 48A OBC (except the Model 3 standard range which has a 32A OBC), so the 14-50 won't let you charge at full capacity.

 

[ATPMSD]

I suggest you do not worry about “future proofing.” Installing a Wall Connector is cheaper than installing a 14-50. On a 60-amp circuit you will charge at 48-amps while the 14-50 with a mobile connector is limited to 32-amps. The cable is longer, 24’ versus 20’, and it has built in load sharing in case you add another connector later.

Once the wire has been run it is very easy to change from a Tesla connector to something else, or even to an outlet.

 

[ATPMSD]

Most future proof is to run a cable that can handle 100A

Totally agree. The best option is to run this circuit to a sub-panel

 

[jjrandorin]

Thank you so much for all the replies. I'm having second thoughts about my first electrician choice (they did a great job on my solar but they seem less knowledgeable about EV chargers). I'm leaning now towards just getting a 14-50 installed - I think that's the most future proof way to go. I think at some point all the charger ports on EV's will be standardized (although who knows - Apple still uses lightning cable so maybe Tesla is a big enough gorilla to have a proprietary standard and everyone else will have to add adapters).

Thank you so much! You've cleared up some of my misunderstandings. I'm looking forward to ordering my Model Y soon.

if you are looking at the most "future proof" for both tesla and non tesla home charging, my suggestion would be to get the new tesla J1772 wall connector. J1772 is basically the "VHS tape" of home charging. Teslas connector is like Betamax, better, but proprietary.

Perhaps I am losing some younger people with this analogy, lol.

Im not a fan of installing a new 14-50 outlet for charging, as whatever you are plugging in still needs to be cable managed, etc, and that doesnt count the fact that you need a GFCI breaker for an outlet, and dont for a hard wired connector.

Anyway, if the goal is "maximum flexibility of the charging device" using a J1772 standard connector fits that bill. It means that if you have a tesla, you would be always using the J1772 to tesla adapter, but that still comes with the car. Virtually every other EV brand is going to have a J1772 type connector though.

 

[jcanoe]

Thank you so much for all the replies. I'm having second thoughts about my first electrician choice (they did a great job on my solar but they seem less knowledgeable about EV chargers). I'm leaning now towards just getting a 14-50 installed - I think that's the most future proof way to go. I think at some point all the charger ports on EV's will be standardized (although who knows - Apple still uses lightning cable so maybe Tesla is a big enough gorilla to have a proprietary standard and everyone else will have to add adapters).

Thank you so much! You've cleared up some of my misunderstandings. I'm looking forward to ordering my Model Y soon.

I usually recommend that today Tesla owners get the Gen3 Wall Connector instead of the 14-50 receptacle for all of the reasons stated, then some. For the price ($400 US) the Wall Connector is a good value with more than ample flexibility. Things the Wall Connector features or can provide:

- All weather rating for use whether inside a garage or installed outdoors
- The ability to periodically receive firmware updates over the internet (you can use your phone as a WiFi hot spot if your garage does not have a good WiFi signal.)
- A 24 foot long charging cord versus 18.5 ft for the Mobile Connector
- Integral hanger for the charging cable and holder for the Tesla charging connector.
- The capability for 2 or more Wall Connectors to be configured for automatic load balancing (this requires a home WiFi network.)
- The capability to limit, by VIN, which Tesla vehicles are able to charge using your Wall Connector
- Direct billing for charging (a future capability, for commercial installations of the Wall Connector.)

 

[STS-134]

- The capability for 2 or more Wall Connectors to be configured for automatic load balancing (Requires a home WiFi network.)

I don't think it does. I believe the WCs connect directly to each other.

 

[jcanoe]

I don't think it does. I believe the WCs connect directly to each other.

That is correct for the Gen2 Wall Connectors but for Gen3 Wall Connectors (up to 6 Gen3 Wall Connectors) the load balancing communications, signaling between Wall Connectors is accomplished via WiFi.

 

[STS-134]

That is correct for the Gen2 Wall Connectors but for Gen3 Wall Connectors (up to 6 Gen3 Wall Connectors) the load balancing communications, signaling between Wall Connectors is accomplished via WiFi.

And Gen3 WCs do not require a home WiFi network. The WCs connect directly to each other. They do not need to communicate through a third device. I had so much trouble with mine when Tesla enabled the power sharing and my Gen3 WC was constantly beaconing because Tesla apparently didn't think that the beaconing should be disabled if you aren't using power sharing. I ended up rolling back the firmware version to make it stop doing this.