Is New Plaid S build quality improving since Fall 2022 ?

[vcor]

No panel gaps at all?

All cars have gaps. The gaps are consistent on both our Tesla cars when viewed from a couple of feet away. I didn't use a micrometer on them, but I do notice inconsistencies on a few other non-Teslas. I did notice quite a few inconsistent gaps on several early Lucids a few months ago. Our first 2013 S had a bit more inconsistency in the gaps, but not enough to complain about and no one else noticed them. One chrome door trim was off by 1/8" or so on that first 2013 S, which Tesla service fixed. I hand wash my car, so I do get up close too and I'm a bit OCD on things like this.

 

[dmurphy]

That is interesting! yes, at $4k I would absolutely buy FSD. I went with EAP for the exact reason you mentioned; at $6k I like the lane change. When the other features come online for EAP I will be happy.

I also 100% agree with your assessment on your son. My son is also about to start driving. I was going to save him my model 3, but after getting a good price for it I couldn't justify holding onto it for him. I figure I will help him buy a 3 or whatever the "2" is that is coming out if that is really the thing. No EAP or FSD for him.. gota learn through experience, and best to do so in one of the safest cars in the world!

Congrats on the S! Your logic is sound, I really just went full mid-life crisis mode (to quote my wife) and figured if I am going to close in on 6-figures on a car, I am going to order it new, and exactly what I want. Your decision was much more... stable lol.

Thanks! I don't know if it's brilliant or insane to have a Model 3 as a first car. Guess we're going to find out. He's not just getting a hand-me-down though; he has to buy it from me. Granted, I'm "only" charging $10k (which eventually I'll give back to him - let me see some college grades first) -- but he needs to have skin in the game. He's 15 right now (16 is permit; 17 is license in NJ) - so he's got time to save up some bucks and work out a payment plan with me for it. Given that it's a 2019, with 50k miles, that just had an accident (not my fault - was rear ended at a red light -- all cosmetic damage but an accident on the Carfax really hurts).... value's plummeted. So I may as well hold onto the 3; selling it and buying another in a year will probably put us even further behind the 8-ball, without the luxury of "knowing" the car I'm putting him in. I have no idea if it's sane logic, and yeah, probably counts as a mid-life crisis, but what the hey. Can't take it with ya. Thing is, on the Model S - by going used, I get FSD. If I went with a new car, I don't think I could bring myself to pay $15k for it. I like FSD - quite a bit - but not sure if I like it $15k.

First time since high school I've bought a used car, so this feels odd and weird but the financials just seemed to make a ton of sense. Hopefully it works out.

While the topic of this thread says "Is New Plaid S build quality improving since Fall 2022", almost anything beyond the first 7 posts seems to be off-topic.

Not sure if the OP is getting any relevant and useful feedback to his post!

Said what I needed to say about build quality (yep, I was post 8) and yes, admittedly the topic's drifted since. If the moderators have an issue with that, I'm sure they'll split the thread. Thank you for your concern.

 

[ucmndd]

Ok, Tesla is not perfect, but no worse than any other automaker.

They are objectively and subjectively worse than almost every single automaker in the world.

Per JD Power they have improved somewhat such that they are no longer dead last as they were in 2020, but they are still far far worse than the industry average.

2022 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS)

TROY, Mich.: 28 June 2022 — In the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, initial vehicle quality notably declined, according to the J.D. Power 2022 U.S. Initial Quality StudySM (IQS), released today. The disruptions caused by the pandemic—supply chain issues, record-high vehicle prices and personnel...

www.jdpower.com

 

[SO16]

They are objectively and subjectively worse than almost every single automaker in the world.

Per JD Power they have improved somewhat such that they are no longer dead last as they were in 2020, but they are still far far worse than the industry average.

2022 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS)

TROY, Mich.: 28 June 2022 — In the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, initial vehicle quality notably declined, according to the J.D. Power 2022 U.S. Initial Quality StudySM (IQS), released today. The disruptions caused by the pandemic—supply chain issues, record-high vehicle prices and personnel...

www.jdpower.com

Here is a video explaining the JD power study. It doesn’t mean what most people think it means.

 

[K.I.T.T.23]

They are objectively and subjectively worse than almost every single automaker in the world.

Per JD Power they have improved somewhat such that they are no longer dead last as they were in 2020, but they are still far far worse than the industry average.

2022 U.S. Initial Quality Study (IQS)

TROY, Mich.: 28 June 2022 — In the wake of the COVID-19 pandemic, initial vehicle quality notably declined, according to the J.D. Power 2022 U.S. Initial Quality StudySM (IQS), released today. The disruptions caused by the pandemic—supply chain issues, record-high vehicle prices and personnel...

www.jdpower.com

Until the main stream media and memes lay off Tesla a bit... statements like "objectively/subjectively worst" have no value, at least to me. I read an article about an Audi EV that ejected its battery after an accident and started a fire. Titled: "EV ejects battery, starts fire" What do you think that article would be titled if a Tesla did the same? Probably along the lines of "Tesla Ejects Battery, Causes massive damage to infrastructure" The brand would be mentioned if it is a Tesla, and typically some exaggeration to follow.

I look at the profitability of Tesla, and performance in my personal portfolio, I do not own any stock in any other auto maker. Do Teslas have issues? Yep, just like everyone else. the JD Powers study (Thanks for the explanation video @SO16 ) seems like it is unintentionally using data points that would make it difficult for a new type of vehicle to score well.

 

[ucmndd]

I look at the profitability of Tesla, and performance in my personal portfolio, I do not own any stock in any other auto maker. Do Teslas have issues? Yep, just like everyone else. the JD Powers study (Thanks for the explanation video @SO16 ) seems like it is unintentionally using data points that would make it difficult for a new type of vehicle to score well.

Defend your stonks by attacking the media or metrics however you want, but anyone who has spent even 5 minutes around this company in the last 10 years knows the statement “Tesla is not perfect, but no worse than any other automaker” is just plain dishonest and incorrect. I love my car, but I’m realistic and honest about what it is and isn’t.

 

[lowtek]

Defend your stonks by attacking the media or metrics however you want, but anyone who has spent even 5 minutes around this company in the last 10 years knows the statement “Tesla is not perfect, but no worse than any other automaker” is just plain dishonest and incorrect. I love my car, but I’m realistic and honest about what it is and isn’t.

There are similarly toxic forums for just about everything out there ... Most Tesla owners don't have any issues, the ones that do speak up and since Tesla is all the rave right now it makes headlines. The internet is powered by big mouths and small brains.

 

[ucmndd]

There are similarly toxic forums for just about everything out there ... Most Tesla owners don't have any issues, the ones that do speak up and since Tesla is all the rave right now it makes headlines. The internet is powered by big mouths and small brains.

I’m not talking about forums. I’m talking about direct observation of quality and product inconsistency over many many years. Plenty of objective metrics support this observation.

Tesla build quality is highly inconsistent, ranging from acceptable to an embarrassing shitshow. This isn’t some fake news conspiracy. It’s just the truth. Tesla isn’t exactly cranking out Toyota-level consistency and quality. Why are we still pretending that’s not true?

 

[lowtek]

I’m not talking about forums. I’m talking about direct observation of quality and product inconsistency over many many years. Plenty of objective metrics support this observation.

Tesla build quality is highly inconsistent, ranging from acceptable to an embarrassing shitshow. This isn’t some fake news conspiracy. It’s just the truth. Tesla isn’t exactly cranking out Toyota-level consistency and quality. Why are we still pretending that’s not true?

Oh, I don't disagree ... I'm just saying that readers of these posts should weigh them appropriately ... not everybody is having problems or quality issues ... panel gaps being the #1, minor paint flaws seems to be #2 ... *most* panel gaps seem to be with doors, hood, frunk which are all easily adjustable. I adjusted my wifey's Y's frunk and trunk in about 10 minutes to fix the offset gaps, no special tools required. However, to the point, should have never left Tesla that way.

 

[SO16]

I’m not talking about forums. I’m talking about direct observation of quality and product inconsistency over many many years. Plenty of objective metrics support this observation.

Tesla build quality is highly inconsistent, ranging from acceptable to an embarrassing shitshow. This isn’t some fake news conspiracy. It’s just the truth. Tesla isn’t exactly cranking out Toyota-level consistency and quality. Why are we still pretending that’s not true?

It’s true that Tesla isn’t at Toyota level quality.

It’s true there’s definitely room for improvement.

It’s also true that many blow the “OMG TESLA QUALITY IS ABSOLUTELY HORRENDOUS AND THEY ARE GOING TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS IF THEY DONT IMPROVE!” … way out of proportion.

 

[lowtek]

It’s true that Tesla isn’t at Toyota level quality.

And how bad is Toyota butt hurt right now ... they had 20% stake in $TSLA and sold it in 2017

 

[ucmndd]

It’s true that Tesla isn’t at Toyota level quality.

It’s true there’s definitely room for improvement.

It’s also true that many blow the “OMG TESLA QUALITY IS ABSOLUTELY HORRENDOUS AND THEY ARE GOING TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS IF THEY DONT IMPROVE!” … way out of proportion.

Of course. Like I said I love my car and I’m realistic about what it is and isn’t. The constant background drone here about the “real competition” putting Tesla out to pasture Real Soon Now(tm) has been going on since well before you and I got here and it’s no more true today than it was 5 years ago.

 

[lowtek]

Tesla out to pasture Real Soon Now(tm) has been going on since well before you and I got here and it’s no more true today than it was 5 years ago.

Yep, ask the short sellers

 

[K.I.T.T.23]

Defend your stonks by attacking the media or metrics however you want, but anyone who has spent even 5 minutes around this company in the last 10 years knows the statement “Tesla is not perfect, but no worse than any other automaker” is just plain dishonest and incorrect. I love my car, but I’m realistic and honest about what it is and isn’t.

Stonks? Is that a slang thing? Think you may have missed my point. I am not defending the fact that I own stock… I am emphasizing that I put my money where my mouth is. I see Tesla as a, if not the leading, successful auto maker in the future. Been driving a Model 3 for a couple years, wife had a Model Y, minimal issues.

You consider my point on the media’s coverage as an attack? You must work for CNN or something… because pointing out biased reporting my mainstream media is not an attack, it is an objective statement.

Also, saying Tesla has issues, just like other manufactures is not the same as your miss-quote. My point is each automaker has their issues, pick your poison.

 

[dmurphy]

Of course. Like I said I love my car and I’m realistic about what it is and isn’t. The constant background drone here about the “real competition” putting Tesla out to pasture Real Soon Now(tm) has been going on since well before you and I got here and it’s no more true today than it was 5 years ago.

For sure. That's a trope whose time has come and gone. Just like the "You'll die in an EV in the winter" nonsense that comes up every fall.

Now all that said - I find the comparison vs. Toyota to be an interesting one. People tend to hold Toyota up as an example of "excellent" vehicle quality.

Well -
Ask Tacoma owners whose frames rotted away to nothing.
Or bZ4X customers whose wheels came off.

But more than anything, this is a great read: https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf

Regardless of what you think about unintended acceleration (I tend to lean towards driver mistake in most if not all cases) -- the software certainly seems sloppy. Not saying it's the cause of UA by any means, but the static code analysis in this doc is very eye opening.

I'm not singling out Toyota, thinking they're some awful company. Not in the least. But I think the perception of Toyota doesn't match the reality. Very much the same for Tesla, but in a 180-polar opposite direction.

The sad truth is that building cars is hard. Building software is hard. Building quality, reliable software is *extremely* hard. And in the era of software-defined cars especially, I think all the manufacturers basically suck together. But the perception is what it is -- there's always a nugget of truth in there, but many times the perception is very far skewed from reality.

 

[ucmndd]

For sure. That's a trope whose time has come and gone. Just like the "You'll die in an EV in the winter" nonsense that comes up every fall.

Now all that said - I find the comparison vs. Toyota to be an interesting one. People tend to hold Toyota up as an example of "excellent" vehicle quality.

Well -
Ask Tacoma owners whose frames rotted away to nothing.
Or bZ4X customers whose wheels came off.

But more than anything, this is a great read: https://users.ece.cmu.edu/~koopman/pubs/koopman14_toyota_ua_slides.pdf

Regardless of what you think about unintended acceleration (I tend to lean towards driver mistake in most if not all cases) -- the software certainly seems sloppy. Not saying it's the cause of UA by any means, but the static code analysis in this doc is very eye opening.

I'm not singling out Toyota, thinking they're some awful company. Not in the least. But I think the perception of Toyota doesn't match the reality. Very much the same for Tesla, but in a 180-polar opposite direction.

The sad truth is that building cars is hard. Building software is hard. Building quality, reliable software is *extremely* hard. And in the era of software-defined cars especially, I think all the manufacturers basically suck together. But the perception is what it is -- there's always a nugget of truth in there, but many times the perception is very far skewed from reality.

There are always counterexamples.

I don't hold Toyota up as a particular example of quality so much as consistency. Certainly related terms but not the same. The Lean process improvement principles that they pioneered over decades have resulted in a product consistency that the rest of the industry still struggles to match.

That definitely has quality implications and can impact perceptions. But when things go off the rails it can also mean that each and every copy of your product is flawed in exactly the same way.

 

[dmurphy]

There are always counterexamples.

I don't hold Toyota up as a particular example of quality so much as consistency. Certainly related terms but not the same. The Lean process improvement principles that they pioneered over decades have resulted in a product consistency that the rest of the industry still struggles to match.

That definitely has quality implications and can impact perceptions. But when things go off the rails it can also mean that each and every copy of your product is flawed in exactly the same way.

Very astutely put. That's a fabulous way to think of it.

And (like you said, another counterexample) ... Tesla's entire modus operandi ensures a lack of consistency. Their "fail fast, fail forward" principles almost ensures some level of chaos. Especially in automotive, we're used to and train to look for that level of consistency you mention. Every single 2021 Camry, for example, should be identical in our eyes. Taking software design principles and applying them to heavy manufacturing is new, different, awkward and flies against everything we've come to know since Henry Ford. It drives us batty when, for example, a 2021 Model 3 has a PTC heater, but one built a month or two later has a heat pump. Or, they try something crazy like, say, removing radar units. When was the last time experiments and mistakes were *encouraged* in this industry?

So -- net-net -- is being consistent correct, and chaotic wrong? Or is chaos the right way forward? No good answer there. They're just ... different. And to put them side-by-side on some "quality metrics" survey? GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

 

[ulyh]

Ive had my thumb on the order button for a new Tesla for the last 6 weeks.

Read posts from the past year, read online articles, seen youtube videos - about build quality issues noted when taking delivery of Model S Plaid.

Thought I would not be bothered by this once the price dropped 21,000 on Jan 13, but seems i still am - if anything - its more of an excuse for factory folks to say well you're getting a car thats 21,000 cheaper so may not be perfect.

Most of the issues I saw were from Videos and articles from 2021 up to Summer 2022.

Anyone know if these quality control issues with the exterior and trim and paint and panels have improved in the last 6 months. I am sure there are misses here and there but any general patterns of improvement in the last several months?

I ask since i am still deciding between Performance Y vs Model S Plaid - but i dont want to buy the Plaid if there is a reasonable chance of finding significant issues where I need to start haggling with the Tesla people to fix this and address that - I just dont need that kind of stress!

I feel like if i buy a performance model Y, it should not be garbage, but I am not expecting perfection, though if i buy a Plaid S, i will hold them to a higher standard ;-)

No chance, workmanship stays disastrous...
Now after 7000 km pinned things going away_
Fixing doesn't help, need service?

 

[Boza]

If you are coming from a similarly priced luxury brand - No, the quality is not there. There is a lack of consistency and pretty much luck determines if you get a good car or not. Pile on top of that the very questionable customer support and if you are unlucky your life with the car will be miserable.
As for what is consistent, Tesla is Spartan compared to those luxury brands creature comforts - so, tune down your expectations. It is not “minimalistic”; it is “cutting corners”.
That leads to the next point - ergonomics, especially software/UI, are mid-level or even below that. Most cars software is crappy anyway. The infamous “Hardware people cannot make software and vice versa”. Tesla, however, because of the FSD efforts, takes it to the next level. It is in the “uncanny valley” where FSD is not there yet but the human driver experience is compromised. Oh, there are some religious beliefs that you will have to cope with (e.g. Tesla Vision).
On the other hand, you get probably the most advanced EV drivetrain at the moment and the awesome charging network (although, both of those advantages will probably diminish quite soon).
So long as you get into it with eyes open and fingers crossed you may have a good experience. However, if you are not in a hurry, in the next couple of years there will be some very viable alternatives.

 

[Droschke]

On the other hand, you get probably the most advanced EV drivetrain at the moment

Would you elaborate a bit on why you think so?