Nosken
Member
If you have an iPhone or iPad, this is a great tool for PG&E. Includes Powerwall calculations. No other batteries. My PG&E Toolkit Lite
Is PG&E going to automatically move us to E-TOU-C?
- Thread starter sorka
- Start date
holeydonut
Supporting Member
I think this requirement to go to an EV plan is only for resiliency installs that don't have solar. This way the Powerwall owner is encouraged to charge it only during the off-peak times. But with any bureaucracy... maybe they force owners with solar to also switch to an EV plan as well even when the Powerwall is meant to be tied to self-generation equipment.
Discover the Self-Generation Incentive Program for Residential Customers
Residential customers applying for battery storage incentives must transition to qualifying home charging rate schedules (EVA, EVB, or EV2A) in order to be eligible to receive any SGIP storage incentives. This is to promote a reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by providing the right price signals to charge during “off-peak” times when there are more renewables on the grid. You may also save money on these rates by charging your battery storage system during off-peak times and discharging it during “peak” times.
Thats "With SGIP rebate, and I am fairly sure that was someone talking specifically about equity and resiliency. You are mixing things up that are not necessarily mixed for many people.
It seems to me, that because you are focused on the SGIP equity and resiliency program for yourself, you seem to attempting to see everything through that lens, or put everything in that bucket, when that isnt correct or accurate for people who are not a part of the program to get batteries paid for by the local state government.
Getting energy products ( solar or solar + storage) at this particular juncture in CA requires one to be on a time of use rate. One normally has their choice of time of use rates, but I have no idea if the specific equity and resiliency program requires choice of a specific rate. I doubt it, however.
Getting battery storage QUALIFIES one to use the "EV rate" if you want to, but doesnt "force" anyone to use said rate. Utilities will "helpfully", during PTO for energy storage products, move someone from a tiered rate to "another" TOU rate, and they may choose to put someone on the "EV" rate since they qualify for it. I doubt that a person could not move to another TOU rate, AS LONG AS that specific tariff / schedule was not sunsetted by the utility (which many have been).
I am not in PGE land, and have not researched their tariffs, so have no idea if TOU-C is sun setted or not, but I have never seen any program dictate WHICH time of use rate one HAS to be on. The utilities will move people to a rate, but thats not "has" to be on it. With that being said, I did no research on Equity and Resiliency from an SGIP perspective because I dont qualify for it, so maybe that specific subset of SGIP dictates a rate schedule?
In General, SGIP dictates an amount of storage discharge (so you cant just sit in backup only all year, you need to be cycling energy through the batteries, to hit the required energy discharge), but I havent ever seen anything that dictates a specific rate. I have seen people post here that they were "moved to rate X" which is in line with what I said above, that the utility will move people to a rate, but that doesnt generally mean they can not choose another TOU rate as long as its not sunsetted.
To the OP's screenshot, one thing I'll note is that I think everyone is presented with that opt-out checkbox, regardless of rate plan. For example, I'm already on E-TOU-C (forced by default a few months ago when E-TOU-A ended), but I still get that query to opt-out of E-TOU-C So I think that question is the opt-out mechanism for the future time of your scheduled transition (which varies by county), and is independent of the rate choices below, which would apply immediately to your next cycle.
For example if I select E-1 today, without checking the opt-out, I would be moved to E-1 now, but still transitioned to E-TOU-C in a few months with my neighbors. But if I check the opt-out, I would be moved to E-1 now, and stay on E-1 when my neighbors default to E-TOU-C in a few months.
The PG&E FAQ that was in the 2nd post seems to answer every scenario, but in a very meandering thousand cuts. AFAIK, every rate plan except tiered E-1 is a TOU or tiered TOU plan, and would seemingly NOT be transitioned. Why don't they just say at the beginning, ONLY E-1 customers will be automatically transitioned, and every other rate plan will NOT? Why keep referring to "on a tiered rate plan" when there is only E-1?
For example if I select E-1 today, without checking the opt-out, I would be moved to E-1 now, but still transitioned to E-TOU-C in a few months with my neighbors. But if I check the opt-out, I would be moved to E-1 now, and stay on E-1 when my neighbors default to E-TOU-C in a few months.
The PG&E FAQ that was in the 2nd post seems to answer every scenario, but in a very meandering thousand cuts. AFAIK, every rate plan except tiered E-1 is a TOU or tiered TOU plan, and would seemingly NOT be transitioned. Why don't they just say at the beginning, ONLY E-1 customers will be automatically transitioned, and every other rate plan will NOT? Why keep referring to "on a tiered rate plan" when there is only E-1?
Ampster
Active Member
That is more logical and still gives someone a choice within those options. As noted it only seems to apply to those in equity and resiliency programs.
I had solar and got approved for the PG&E SGIP Equity Resiliency incentive for 2 Powerwalls. I had to switch to an EV rate plan before PG&E (I think this is a PG&E requirement and not an SGIP requirement) will approve payment of the incentive. I don't have a separate meter (I don't have an EV) so my only option is EV2A (EVA is no longer open to new enrollees).
I have electric heat so the partial peak hours of EV2A probably aren't the best option for me. It would make more sense if I were allowed to recharge the Powerwalls from the grid like EVs can. I'm waiting to see how things turn out at true-up but this COVID year probably isn't representative of future years. I had already sized my solar for $0 true-up before I got the Powerwalls so I'm hoping I'll be OK.
I have electric heat so the partial peak hours of EV2A probably aren't the best option for me. It would make more sense if I were allowed to recharge the Powerwalls from the grid like EVs can. I'm waiting to see how things turn out at true-up but this COVID year probably isn't representative of future years. I had already sized my solar for $0 true-up before I got the Powerwalls so I'm hoping I'll be OK.
Ampster
Active Member
CCAs were created as a reregulation mechanism. They only deal with the generation portion of a bill and their rates are less per kWh than the IOUs. I would go into more detail but it is not relevant to the topic. Lots of other threads discuss their model in detail.
Ampster
Active Member
But that would jeopardize your Federal tax credit if I understand the consequences correctly.
Ampster
Active Member
I meant to say that CCAs were created as a mechanism of DEREGULATION. The operative word was choice and the concept was to give communities that wanted to form a CCA the choice of whom to purchase power from.
The program he is talking about (equity and resiliency), ends up with the powerwalls being no cost to the homeowner, so there isnt any "federal tax rebate". Thats what people who qualify for that program keep talking in circles about ("why cant I charge the powerwalls from the grid since I am not taking a federal incentive"?), because they are getting a state incentive to get them for free.
I had a bunch of other stuff typed here about my feelings about that program (equity and resiliency) but realized it was just me ranting, so removed it. Lets just say I am not a fan of the program, and leave it at that.
holeydonut
Supporting Member
Sorry for the nit-picks...
The Federal investment tax credit shouldn't apply at all if the Powerwall is being charged by the grid instead of with a "green" self generation source like solar.
Also, the Residential Equity Resiliency (ER) program is slightly different than the Equity program (commonly known as the low-income program). The ER program is a 100% reimbursement.
But the Residential Equity program only reimburses at 85%. Low earners are already see very small federal tax bills, so it's likely an ITC savings wouldn't actually be worth a huge amount of money on the remaining 15% value. But, when you're low income every bit matters.
So, there are separate low-income incentives to add solar. If someone reading this qualifies for the Residential Equity SGIP program, it could make economic sense to also seek out the "almost free" solar programs as well and clean energy alongside the Equity sourced Powerwall. This would provide access to both the SGIP 85% and 26% off of the remaining 15%. And the savings would be long-lived due to solar helping offset the energy bill.
Although it could be argued low income people are already paying a de minimis energy bill since their rates are subsidized as well.
The low-income person just needs to avoid falling for the terrible solar leases and other terrible financing instruments. While the state and federal government want to help low income people, there are many others who want to take advantage of the low-income person's situation for profit.
Yep, I have solar also and am told I will be forced. But if and when I get a check, then I will test but if you have a medical baseline you can be on tou-c
Yep, this is what I have been told. SGIP ER, must do ev2a to get pge money.
So, do you have your check already? If so, I guess you will be getting a 1099 soon to pay takes on the check as ordinary income. And they said it was free. Not close.
As has been posted, some give a customer a choice of full rebate with no ITC, or less rebate with ITC.
But since either way with the 1099 form being filed, such that the check has to be claimed as ordinary income, the end result is FAR from free!!
Ampster
Active Member
Has your opinion changed since it was thoroughly discussed in this thread?:
Is pge Equity Resiliency program taxable?
What did your tax guy say?
I have not talk my tax guy, but other money folks I have talked to say yep, will need to be declared and taxed as ordinary income.
What I am waiting to see if for the folks who got their pge checks in 2020, did they get a 1099 in January for the amount of money they got.
Ampster
Active Member
That is inconsistent with the link you posted here.
26 U.S. Code § 136 - Energy conservation subsidies provided by public utilities
There was also some discussion on that thread that regardless of the 1099 it was not taxable, but it would be better to continue this discussion on the other thread and not a cluttering up this thread since your system has not been installed.
I haven't got my check yet. I still haven't been contacted by PG&E SGIP for an inspection date. Per this link I don't expect to have to pay taxes:Yep, this is what I have been told. SGIP ER, must do ev2a to get pge money.
So, do you have your check already? If so, I guess you will be getting a 1099 soon to pay takes on the check as ordinary income. And they said it was free. Not close.
26 U.S. Code § 136 - Energy conservation subsidies provided by public utilities
If I do get a 1099 I'll treat it as non taxable.
You commented in the other thread that you haven't seen the SGIP application form that your installer should have submitted for a reservation (it requires your approval). Your installer should have provided a copy to you. If you didn't get a SGIP reservation confirmation like the one below in an email (I XXXX'd out my personal data) you should contact your installer (or SGIP) to make sure you have a reservation.
05/22/20
Dear XXXXXX XXXXXX,
Congratulations! This notice confirms that funds have been reserved for your project PGE-SGIP-2020-XXXX. Please note that this is stage 1 of a 2 stage application process. See below for the reservation details:
Project ID:
PGE-SGIP-2020-XXXX
Host Customer:
XXXX XXXXX
Site Address:
XXXXX XXX
Garden Valley , CA 95633
Equipment Type:
Electrochemical Storage
Storage Capacity:
26.4 kWh
Rated Capacity:
10.000 kW
Paired With:
Photovoltaic
Confirmed Incentive Amount:
$18,122.25
Application Fee Paid:
$0.00
Reservation Expiration Date:
05/22/21
Important: This Confirmed Reservation is only valid until the Reservation Expiration date: 05/22/21.
Next Steps:
· On or before 05/22/21, the Contractor must complete the installation of the SGIP equipment and the Applicant must submit all required Incentive Claim Form (ICF) documents. Failure to complete the installation of the SGIP equipment and/or submit the ICF documents may result in cancellation of this reservation.
· System must be interconnected. Please go to https://www.egi-pge.com to apply for interconnection.
· Upon receipt of the ICF documents, a third-party entity will conduct an inspection of the SGIP installation to verify that the project is operational, interconnected, and conforms to the eligibility criteria of SGIP. Payment of the incentive will be issued after these items have been completed and verified by Pacific Gas and Electric.
Submit all documents via the SGIP Online Application Portal:
· Log into your account at www.selfgenca.com and select the project from the Dashboard.
· Upload the Incentive Claim Form documents on the Documents page.
· Once you have uploaded all of the requested information, click the “Submit” button on the Submit page to transmit the materials to Pacific Gas and Electric.
Please note: The reserved incentive amount of $18,122.25 may change based
upon any of the following situations:
· Changes to the total eligible project costs or the equipment.
· Gas generation projects comply with the renewable fuel blending requirement for the year in which they applied.
· Energy storage systems paired with a renewable generator comply with the Investment Tax Credit requirements or charge the system at least 75% from the renewable generator.
· If the CA manufacturer bonus was granted for the project, the reserved incentive amount is contingent upon submission and approval of the "Request for California Manufacturer Status" document for the manufacturer listed on the RRF.
The confirmed incentive amount is specific to the proposed project information listed on the RRF and/or Proof of Project Milestone form. Changes to the proposed project must be approved by PG&E beforehand. The final incentive amount will be established at the Incentive Claim stage after review of the final project cost breakdown and affidavit, and final system approval after inspection. A check will be sent after all reviews have been completed.
Questions?
For more information on required documents and submission procedures, please refer to the 2020 SGIP Handbook (see page 58 for Advanced Energy Storage and page 89 for Generation). Please feel free to contact us at [email protected] should you have any questions. We appreciate the opportunity to serve you!
Thank you,
Christina Aquino
Self-Generation Incentive Program (SGIP)
Phone: 1-877-743-4112 or email [email protected]
For SGIP Program information, Handbook and Forms, please visit:
PG&E SGIP Program
Self- Generation Incentive Program
CPUC
pge.com : privacy
NOTE: You are receiving this email because we received an inquiry from you about your incentive request.
Pacific Gas and Electric Company, 77 Beale St., San Francisco, CA 94105.
Yep, I got my confirmation Email. Now just trying to get the plans approved. Then after that will see if any batteries can be found.
I hear different opinions on the 1099. If I ever get all the way through and get money, then I guess I will have to see what folks did for 2020 taxes that did get paid and got a 1099.
