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Is plugging in at a public place stealing?

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by Jkam, Apr 9, 2012.

  1. Jkam

    Jkam Member

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  2. Tesla 940

    Tesla 940 Member

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    Laptop versus Car

    The power usage of a phone or laptop is microscopic compared to a car - even when using a 110 outlet.
     
  3. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I'd say yes. You are taking something (electricity) which is not yours. Always ask the owner of the outlet for permission.
     
  4. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Personally I wouldn't do it without asking permission.

    Well, probably if I was stranded in the middle of nowhere with absolutely no other choice, and the car on fumes, I might in desperation plug in to an available outlet. But I wouldn't leave the car, and if the owner of the plug showed up I'd give him $10 even if he kicked me off.
     
  5. Depends if your an EV or PHEV :biggrin: all jokes aside, I think it is dishonest to just plug into an outlet without asking.
     
  6. zack

    zack Member

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    At $0.12/kwh, it takes about $7 to charge the Roadster from empty. The on-board metering will supply a very accurate number for each charge. Be sure to tip.
     
  7. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    "on fumes"....?? :confused::wink:

    Joking aside; it is stealing, but I'd do the same as Doug_G
     
  8. Talkredius

    Talkredius Member

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    better I don't tell you what I have done during the Roadster Invasion Swiss, when I got nearly stranded on my way back, from Geneva absolutely tired, and no one to ask at 2 am. I was lucky to have the best passenger for this matter on board, I guess he can smell electricity from a far distance. :biggrin:

    With him on board I would cross the Sahara, I'm sure he 'll find a socket at nearly every corner. ( three phase of course:wink:):biggrin::biggrin:
     
  9. CroDriver

    CroDriver Member

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    We don't have a single public charging station (or plug) for EVs in my country. Sometimes my range is not enough for all daily needs so I plug it in a public garage. The garage is very expensive since it's located in the city center so I don't consider the topping-up as stealing. I can charge a maximum of 10% worth electricity per hour paid for the parking. Unfortunatley, someone always unplugs the car while charging. :mad:
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    That sucks. If you don't already have it, you should get the OVMS or Tattler then so you know when that happens.
     
  11. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Of course. Electronics don't run on silicon, they run on smoke. Proof: if you let the smoke out, it stops working. QED.

    But seriously, by "on fumes" I mean "not enough electrons to hold up a balloon"

    Okay I wasn't serious. :tongue:
     
  12. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    I agree: Ask before plugging in, unless it's clearly a car charging spot. If there's a plug and a sign saying "EV Parking" it's a good bet you can plug in.

    If it's an emergency, and it's a business with an outdoor plug, and there's nobody around to ask, go ahead and plug in, but make it a point to get in touch or visit during business hours, tell them what you did and how much electricity you took, and offer to pay them whatever they ask, and then add a tip to that.

    With a 245-mile range, I don't even carry a charging cable in my car.
     
  13. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    You don't need really to but you don't even carry the 110V plug for emergencies?
     
  14. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  15. neroden

    neroden Happy Model S Owner

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    Stupid and not conforming to social norms.

    Social norms are that you can plug your stuff in *if* you
    (1) aren't blocking the socket owner from using the plug;
    (2) aren't overloading the grid;
    (3) make a point of paying for your usage.

    Social norms are NOT that you need to "ask permission first", although you should do so if possible (i.e. if there IS anyone there to ask), in order to avoid overloading the grid or blocking the owner.

    (This is assuming you are someplace you are allowed to be, because social norms do have rules about trespassing.)

    If you don't have an opportunity to pay for your usage, that's not a good situation, but in an emergency, you'd best plug in and send the owner money in the mail.

    "Permissions culture" -- ask before you do anything, no matter how harmless or even helpful, no matter whether there even is anyone to ask -- is expanding, but it's toxic to society, and it should be killed. It is better to ask for forgiveness than permission.
     
  16. ElectricVehicle

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    They better stop giving away free parking spaces to vehicles - it's unfair to anyone who walks, carpools or takes public transit!! The parking space for a car is a $5+/day subsidy.
    Oh, let's turn all the water fountains from free to paid. Drop in a quarter before you drink!
    Better charge for using the toilets also. There is a real cost for the space they occupy and for someone to come and clean them!

    Free coffee? Free Soda? Fawhgeddabboutit!

    You should ask before plugging, explain briefly what it costs, and offer to pay, while mentioning the more valuable subsidies the employer or taxpayers give to a select group, like the parking space, or coffee drinkers!

    Cancel all that meeting food - it's not fair to people not in the meeting... Absurdity knows no end...
     
  17. BYT_P1837

    BYT_P1837 Member

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    Is spilling fossil fuels that are a hazard and pollutants not littering at best?
     
  18. de704

    de704 XP268

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  19. daniel

    daniel Active Member

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    Nope. I carry a cell phone for emergencies. If I was going to drive anywhere near my range limit, I'd carry both the UMC and the 120v cord. But since I never do drive that far (245 miles is a LOT of driving, and I've never driven that far in a day except on road trips, and then I take the stinker for a variety of reasons, including luggage space and driving comfort as well as range) any "emergency" is vanishingly unlikely to involve the need to charge the pack. A Leaf would probably be a very different matter. And I always carried a cord in the Xebra, though in four years I never had to use it because I didn't take the Xebra if I needed to drive too close to its range. That 245 mile range was one of the reasons I decided to buy the Roadster, and is one of the reasons I am so happy with it. (Fun to drive, and looks, are other reasons.)

    On the subject of plugging in to public outlets:

    Taking anything without permission is stealing. If we want the general public to see us in a good light we should not steal. However, public institutions and the military should have policies whereby EV drivers could BUY electricity. Perhaps a standard marking meter with a rate appropriate to the power the associated plug can deliver. Probably a lot cheaper than the cost of installing an EVSE.
     
  20. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    But do you carry a cord to charge your phone in emergencies?
     

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