Is radar really turned off? Not so sure anymore

[bayareaever]

I have a 2018 M3 with radar installed and FSD beta 10.9 (started at 10.4). I’ve experienced many of the reported problems including phantom braking, etc. A few weeks ago, my car really slammed on the brakes 20 ft from a stop sign and then started flashing ‘AEB disabled’ and ‘cruise control disabled’ for the rest of the drive. The AEB alert returned only once a few weeks later after another phantom brake event.

I made a service appointment and they said the front radar was the cause and decided to replace it (which happened yesterday). I said ‘isn’t the radar turned off?’ and they didn’t seem to know either way. Since the appointment, fsd beta seems to be working notably better, although I need more driving time to be sure.

I think Tesla is a great company overall, but I wouldn’t put it past them to say that radar was turned off just to justify removing it from 3/Y to cut costs or deal with supply shortages.

Interestingly, the service tech at Berkeley told me that mine was the first car he’d ever seen with fsd beta actually turned on, which surprised me. He said he thinks he prefers driving himself for now.

 

[cobra]

Interesting report! Let us know how future drives are. I've seen really mixed slow down / phantom breaking performance in different areas / lighting conditions / road conditions. I would say it has been somewhat worse since 'radar was disabled', but hard to tell.

 

[2101Guy]

Interesting report! Let us know how future drives are. I've seen really mixed slow down / phantom breaking performance in different areas / lighting conditions / road conditions. I would say it has been somewhat worse since 'radar was disabled', but hard to tell.

Its definitely gotten worse over time, not better

 

[cobra]

Its definitely gotten worse over time, not better

For you... I actually don't have much unexpected slowdown with our X. A couple roads and sun conditions I will have some, but I have drives with none at all as well.

 

[bayareaever]

My theory is radar was turned off last year when they made the announcement but has since been reactivated. Elon has mentioned different code for different cars so it make sense.

On another note, where’s 10.10? Is it wise release yet?

 

[bayareaever]

I’m an urban area with lots of traffic and pedestrians. When traffic is light beta works much better obviously. Most of the YouTube videos seems to be in light traffic unsurprisingly.

 

[EVNow]

I think Tesla is a great company overall, but I wouldn’t put it past them to say that radar was turned off just to justify removing it from 3/Y to cut costs or deal with supply shortages.

Its only turned off for FSD Beta - not for others.

I don't think they will have Radar & Radar-less branches of FSD - though it is possible AEB is completely separate from FSD and radar is on for older cars.

BTW, Tesla has never said (AFAIK) that Radar has been turned off for older cars- because it is not turned off except for FSD.

 

[bayareaever]

Its only turned off for FSD Beta - not for others.

I don't think they will have Radar & Radar-less branches of FSD - though it is possible AEB is completely separate from FSD and radar is on for older cars.

If you read my op, I’ve been on beta for five months and I use it frequently. The alerts that I got while using fsd were a few weeks ago and time stamped. The sc determined it was the radar and so far that’s proving to be true.

 

[bayareaever]

I should note that I’ve seen tons of improvement from 10.4 to 10.9 even before the service visit. But there’s clearly a lot of improvement still needed. I was very surprised that the tech had never even seen a car with beta turned on.

 

[bayareaever]

If you read my op, I’ve been on beta for five months and I use it frequently. The alerts that I got while using fsd were a few weeks ago and time stamped. The sc determined it was the radar and so far that’s proving to be true.

That being said, I’d also be very surprised if there were different software branches but you never know with Tesla.

 

[Silicon Desert]

For you... I actually don't have much unexpected slowdown with our X. A couple roads and sun conditions I will have some, but I have drives with none at all as well.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I can't even recall the last time I got a false braking; probably 6 months ago or longer and since that time I've driven across the USA and back twice. I haven't really thought about why some people have had issues and some haven't.

 

[bayareaever]

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I can't even recall the last time I got a false braking; probably 6 months ago or longer and since that time I've driven across the USA and back twice. I haven't really thought about why some people have had issues and some haven't.

So many variables, hardware/software/environment/conditions at that time. I wish Tesla had a way to automatically detect screen alerts and not have to rely on owners to make appts and send them time stamped pictures.

 

[2101Guy]

For you... I actually don't have much unexpected slowdown with our X. A couple roads and sun conditions I will have some, but I have drives with none at all as well.

Yeah, that "some" due to shadows on the road in particular (as you pointed out) is unacceptable at this point. (after all these years of "progress" and "fire updates" and dojo and neural networks and AI and ML and robotaxi since 2019?

But some of us go out of our way to make excuses and justify software that still doesnt deliver what was paid for it/what the CEO promised by now, so I get it.

 

[EVNow]

If you read my op, I’ve been on beta for five months and I use it frequently. The alerts that I got while using fsd were a few weeks ago and time stamped. The sc determined it was the radar and so far that’s proving to be true.

So - the AEB was from radar ? Thats what I said up.

They are not using Radar for determining speed, objects etc in FSD Beta.

ps : I know it can be confusing AEB is a basic feature that all Teslas have. It works differently and quite apart from AP, NOA, FSD Beta etc. So, just because they are still using radar for AEB doesn't mean its being used for AP/FSD Beta.

 

[Twiglett]

For you... I actually don't have much unexpected slowdown with our X. A couple roads and sun conditions I will have some, but I have drives with none at all as well.

Wow, I didn't know you could get FSD beta on a 2017 Model X - very cool.

 

[bayareaever]

So - the AEB was from radar ? Thats what I said up.

They are not using Radar for determining speed, objects etc in FSD Beta.

ps : I know it can be confusing AEB is a basic feature that all Teslas have. It works differently and quite apart from AP, NOA, FSD Beta etc. So, just because they are still using radar for AEB doesn't mean its being used for AP/FSD Beta.

Makes sense. Obviously if AEB/radar is disrupting fsd that’s a problem. For radarless cars, obviously AEB is using vision. I still haven’t seen any logical explanation as to why 3/Y are radarless but X/S still have it.

 

[EVNow]

Makes sense. Obviously if AEB/radar is disrupting fsd that’s a problem. For radarless cars, obviously AEB is using vision. I still haven’t seen any logical explanation as to why 3/Y are radarless but X/S still have it.

My theory has been - Tesla wanted to remove Radar but had to do it quickly because of parts shortage. That also explains why S/X - being low volume - can continue to have radar.

My guess is Radar (and possibly more cameras) will come to Tesla with HW4 or later. But all current HW3 cars will get FSD Beta when it rolls out widely.

 

[cobra]

Wow, I didn't know you could get FSD beta on a 2017 Model X - very cool.

I was careful when I bought it used, it's end of 2017, so had upgraded cameras already. We just did the infotainment upgrade and the AP computer was included at the time, so have full hardware so far...

 

[astrobill]

@bayareaever : The logical explanation as to why 3/Y are radarless but X/S still have it is because it was a cost saving and pandemic supply chain related emergency measure. The S/X are low production, and radar still adds value (see below), so they kept it in those models. Musk spun this has a magical "vision only" leap forward, but it's all nonsense. Then he forced his team to disable radar in "FSD" to match his claims, and it's developed problems ever since. For the same reasons, Tesla removed passenger side electric seat adjustments, claiming it's only because nobody uses them. They also shipped tons of cars without the USB ports (LOL).

Per @verygreen, one of the most trusted and knowledgeable sources about the contents of any given Tesla firmware version:

- Radar is still polled, but no longer used in *some* modes (e.g., "FSD")
- Automated Emergency Braking still uses it
- Forward Collision Warning still uses it

Sometimes used in other non-FSD situations.

It's a myth that Tesla stopped using the radar completely in vehicles that have radar, and Tesla service centers have been told to continue servicing and replacing radars in vehicles that came with it. The Sterling, VA Tesla Service Center manager specifically confirmed the maintenance posture to me.

 

[bayareaever]

@bayareaever : The logical explanation as to why 3/Y are radarless but X/S still have it is because it was a cost saving and pandemic supply chain related emergency measure. The S/X are low production, and radar still adds value (see below), so they kept it in those models. Musk spun this has a magical "vision only" leap forward, but it's all nonsense. Then he forced his team to disable radar in "FSD" to match his claims, and it's developed problems ever since. For the same reasons, Tesla removed passenger side electric seat adjustments, claiming it's only because nobody uses them. They also shipped tons of cars without the USB ports (LOL).

Per @verygreen, one of the most trusted and knowledgeable sources about the contents of any given Tesla firmware version:

- Radar is still polled, but no longer used in *some* modes (e.g., "FSD")
- Automated Emergency Braking still uses it
- Forward Collision Warning still uses it

Sometimes used in other non-FSD situations.

It's a myth that Tesla stopped using the radar completely in vehicles that have radar, and Tesla service centers have been told to continue servicing and replacing radars in vehicles that came with it. The Sterling, VA Tesla Service Center manager specifically confirmed the maintenance posture to me.

Makes sense except now X/S are also radarless afaik.