Is regen same across all models?

[ZapCarM3]

Does regen have anything to do with the motors? Or are they separate? Wondering if rear wheel drive only had rear wheel regen as well.

 

[Tam]

Does regen have anything to do with the motors? Or are they separate? Wondering if rear wheel drive only had rear wheel regen as well.

The specifics are different: Early models regen is not as strong and could be adjustable. Newer models have stronger regen and I think the manually adjustable button is gone...

However, the principle is the same: As a motor, it takes in energy. As regen, the motor now becomes a dynamo or a generator that produces electricity. To generate electricity, the dynamo takes in mechanical energy. You can create electricity from some First Aid flashlights and radio by spending your own muscle energy by turning the hand crank. In your Tesla, it uses the moving motion of the car to crank its dynamo (motor), thus, the acceleration slows down.

 

[ZapCarM3]

The specifics are different: Early models regen is not as strong and could be adjustable. Newer models have stronger regen and I think the manually adjustable button is gone...

However, the principle is the same: As a motor, it takes in energy. As regen, the motor now becomes a dynamo or a generator that produces electricity. To generate electricity, the dynamo takes in mechanical energy. You can create electricity from some First Aid flashlights and radio by spending your own muscle energy by turning the hand crank. In your Tesla, it uses the moving motion of the car to crank its dynamo (motor), thus, the acceleration slows down.

So does the standard range plus have the same regen or not because it only has one motor for rear, that's my question. Not how it actually works but specific to Tesla, how does it work?

Hope this makes sense.

 

[Tam]

So does the standard range plus have the same regen or not because it only has one motor for rear...

Yes. It does make sense.

The principle is the same. The specifics are not: 1 is not the same as 2: Your 1 motor version or 2 motor version becomes 1 dynamo or 2 dynamos. The money is not the same, the amount of regen energy produced is not the same. You pay for the specifics.

For example, the rear-wheel drive Standard Range Plus and my 2018 Model 3 Long-range both have only 1 motor maximum for each car and located in the rear. So those motors can become a dynamo (1 maximum for each car because they don't come with 2 motors each.)

If you pay more for a dual version, you would have 2 motors for each car (1 in front, 1 in rear). Both of those 2 motors can become 2 dynamos. When those 2 motors become a dynamo or not depend on when you can get a regen or not (when the motor output is paused and the kinetic energy of wheel motion turns the dynamo to create regen electricity.)

 

[ZapCarM3]

Yes. It does make sense.

The principle is the same. The specifics are not: 1 is not the same as 2: Your 1 motor version or 2 motor version becomes 1 dynamo or 2 dynamos. The money is not the same, the amount of regen energy produced is not the same. You pay for the specifics.

For example, the rear-wheel drive Standard Range Plus and my 2018 Model 3 Long-range both have only 1 motor maximum for each car and located in the rear. So those motors can become a dynamo (1 maximum for each car because they don't come with 2 motors each.)

If you pay more for a dual version, you would have 2 motors for each car (1 in front, 1 in rear). Both of those 2 motors can become 2 dynamos. When those 2 motors become a dynamo or not depend on when you can get a regen or not (when the motor output is paused and the kinetic energy of wheel motion turns the dynamo to create regen electricity.)

So the SR only has half the regen strength or do they double it for the rear?

 

[Tam]

So the SR only has half the regen strength or do they double it for the rear?

The principle is the same, the specifics are not. The more dynamos you have, the stronger the regen energy. The bigger a dynamo is the stronger the regen energy.

So the SR version has less regen energy than the dual version in principle but not specifically "half".

That's because when you pay for "dual" version, you don't get the same 2 big exact size motors for the money: The front is smaller, the rear is bigger.

So the dual version is like 1.5 more than the SR but not double.

 

[XPsionic]

Doesn't feel like the regen is much stronger (if at all) between my SR+ and when I test drove a LR. Even in the SR+ 2021 there's easily 0.3g or so of regen. I hardly ever touch the physical brakes other than for emergencies or an unexpected obstacle.

 

[Big Earl]

All cars get approximately 70 - 80 kW of regen regardless of whether they’re single or dual motor. Track Mode on the Model 3 Performance adds some additional regen on the front motor for more weight transfer when entering corners.

 

[gearchruncher]

The detail missed so far is that the battery cannot charge at an infinite rate. So the limit is not the motors in many cases. Just like supercharging can only drop about 50 kW into a battery with 90% SoC, regen can't do more than that either while keeping the battery healthy. And you don't want regen changing dramatically as SoC changes. More motors doesn't change the battery, and just one motor in a Tesla can easily do 50kW.

Additionally, Tesla does not want the car to decelerate too much in regen mode- it needs to be comfortable and safe to people behind you. So they actually limit regen to G's of deceleration (not watts), and G's times mass equals watts, independent of what the motor(s) could actually do.

 

[ZapCarM3]

The detail missed so far is that the battery cannot charge at an infinite rate. So the limit is not the motors in many cases. Just like supercharging can only drop about 50 kW into a battery with 90% SoC, regen can't do more than that either while keeping the battery healthy. And you don't want regen changing dramatically as SoC changes. More motors doesn't change the battery, and just one motor in a Tesla can easily do 50kW.

Additionally, Tesla does not want the car to decelerate too much in regen mode- it needs to be comfortable and safe to people behind you. So they actually limit regen to G's of deceleration (not watts), and G's times mass equals watts, independent of what the motor(s) could actually do.

Right on. Main reason I ask is I want to know if regen is weaker feeling on the SR+ which seems not true if the overall efficiency rating is higher. But maybe there are other factors that win out on efficiency like the 500lbs difference.

But I really like the strong regen and want it in whatever I get. It's notably stronger on my family's Y but the 3s I test drive seem to vary between each other even with charges below 80% and on a hot day with no weakened regen dots being displayed.

So weird I'm trying to find out why this is.

 

[Tbonge]

With the SR+ regen only from the rear, the rear wheels are breaking the car and the front are doing nothing? Wouldn’t that wear out the rear tires faster and more importantly be dangerous to stop the car only using the rear wheels? Or do the front breaks engage to balance out the breaking?

 

[gearchruncher]

Wouldn’t that wear out the rear tires faster and more importantly be dangerous to stop the car only using the rear wheels? Or do the front breaks engage to balance out the breaking?

Yes, the rear tires wear a bit faster.
No it's not unsafe. Regen won't lock up the tires, and it doesn't really matter until that happens. The front brakes do not engage unless you press the brake pedal.

 

[Big Earl]

With the SR+ regen only from the rear, the rear wheels are breaking the car and the front are doing nothing? Wouldn’t that wear out the rear tires faster and more importantly be dangerous to stop the car only using the rear wheels? Or do the front breaks engage to balance out the breaking?

Brakes. Braking.

Yes, the rear tires will see more wear than the front, especially if you accelerate quickly. Regular tire rotations are important.

 

[ZapCarM3]

Yes, the rear tires wear a bit faster.
No it's not unsafe. Regen won't lock up the tires, and it doesn't really matter until that happens. The front brakes do not engage unless you press the brake pedal.

Kinda disappointed to hear there is no regen from the front end. Means the front wheels aren't engaged in the braking stage but it sounds like much more wear on the tires in general. But it is also 500lbs lighter but still.

But thanks. I hope I can rely on these answers to be accurate. I talked to some people at tesla but they are often pretty limited with answers to questions like this. Everyone there says the brakes work the same way and are the same all around and also work on the front. I was even told when I asked "if the regen has nothing to do with the motors." They said yes but didn't sound very confident in their answer. I was just chasing their logic step by step until it got to that question so I think they just went with the momentum of their other "yes" answers and gave me another one.

So either the regen works from the front as well even though there are no motors, or, they have no idea what I'm asking them.

Not sure I could feel such a difference on a test drive but I can certainly tell the acceleration on the SR+ is coming from behind and not all around.

I'm generally extremely sensitive to detail of any kind but I'd really appreciate some answers I can truly count on. I just don't know how or where to verify any of what I'm hearing back and frankly I'm not sure how you guys have answers either.

If I ever host a podcast featuring Elon, I'll be sure to ask these questions.

 

[gearchruncher]

So either the regen works from the front as well even though there are no motors, or, they have no idea what I'm asking them.

I just don't know how or where to verify any of what I'm hearing back and frankly I'm not sure how you guys have answers either.

Dude, regen works by running a motor as a generator. It's impossible to have regen from an axle without a motor on it. This is basic physics and how all EV's work. What device on the front axle would convert torque into electricity but can't do it the other way?

Means the front wheels aren't engaged in the braking stage but it sounds like much more wear on the tires in general.

You are WAY over estimating how much wear 0.3G's of braking causes, and the fact that front tires often wear faster due to turning loads and friction braking loads. Just rotate your tires every 5-10K miles and move on.

But if you're so sensitive to this, buy an AWD.

If I ever host a podcast featuring Elon, I'll be sure to ask these questions.

Lolz. Elon is the one suggesting cars don't need steering wheels anymore since FSD is so close (and has for 5 years now).

 

[ZapCarM3]

Dude, regen works by running a motor as a generator. It's impossible to have regen from an axle without a motor on it. This is basic physics and how all EV's work. What device on the front axle would convert torque into electricity but can't do it the other way?


You are WAY over estimating how much wear 0.3G's of braking causes, and the fact that front tires often wear faster due to turning loads and friction braking loads. Just rotate your tires every 5-10K miles and move on.

But if you're so sensitive to this, buy an AWD.


Lolz. Elon is the one suggesting cars don't need steering wheels anymore since FSD is so close (and has for 5 years now).

I feel you. I'm basically rhetorically stating that they are telling me a load of crap. There's probably no way there's some part that is only for regen but I guess I'd believe it if there were, it's why I'm asking but I also feel like it would be more common knowledge as well. But maybe not, nobody seems to really talk about the differences in regen on the surface but you do hear equally technical conversations about the w piece cast and stuff like that.

You make a good point but I mean in addition to only rear acceleration as well but maybe it's kinda negligible and maybe front end wear is more significant and you can simply rotate a little more often, no biggie for me at all.

All in all I think I'm highly more likely to get the dual motor. Going to test a few more side by side to see if regen feels different and if it does, hopefully I understand why.

My Y bites hard and fast and I really like how it handles in this way. I'd like the 3 to be more on par but some feel like they are and other times, other models feel much weaker for reasons I don't understand because I thought I matched everything else up.

 

[srs5694]

Another point: When driving my Tesla Model 3 LR RWD, I tend to modulate the regenerative braking by letting off the accelerator enough to get the deceleration I want, much as I modulate the brakes in a car without one-pedal driving. I don't usually lift my foot entirely off the accelerator so as to get maximum regeneration. When I do that, I usually need to stop more quickly than regeneration alone will handle, so I move my foot over to the brake pedal to get its effect, too; or it's at the very end of a stop at a light or whatnot. I find that this produces the most comfortable ride -- switching in a binary way between acceleration and full regenerative deceleration is jarring to me. (This is one gripe I have with Autopilot; it tends to toggle quickly between acceleration and deceleration when going around curves or whatnot, rather than picking an appropriate intermediate speed and sticking with it.) In other words, even if a dual-motor Tesla could produce more regenerative braking than a RWD model, that wouldn't make much difference to how it's used -- at least, not to me. If you prefer a more binary driving style (full-throttle acceleration and full regenerative braking, with little in-between), then it might be a different story.

Also, there is an option in the Tesla configuration menus to enable a full stop without touching the brake pedal. (I don't recall its name, but it's in there somewhere.) With this option enabled, the Tesla will apply the brakes to come to a complete stop once the car's speed drops enough that regenerative braking has little effect, even if you don't touch the brake pedal. This feature provides what is called "one-pedal driving" in some other EVs, and it blends regenerative braking and conventional brakes -- but only below a certain speed (somewhere between 2mph and 5mph, IIRC, but I don't recall the precise figure).

 

[gearchruncher]

I'm basically rhetorically stating that they are telling me a load of crap.

Tesla salespeople are not technical.
On my first Tesla, they told me the only fluid in the car was washer fluid. I was standing next to the wheel, and pointed at the clearly visible brake line and asked why that was there.....

A Tesla has washer fluid, brake fluid, coolant, gearbox oil, and refrigerant. All of those have maintenance schedules in the manual. So much for one fluid.

 

[ZapCarM3]

Another point: When driving my Tesla Model 3 LR RWD, I tend to modulate the regenerative braking by letting off the accelerator enough to get the deceleration I want, much as I modulate the brakes in a car without one-pedal driving. I don't usually lift my foot entirely off the accelerator so as to get maximum regeneration. When I do that, I usually need to stop more quickly than regeneration alone will handle, so I move my foot over to the brake pedal to get its effect, too; or it's at the very end of a stop at a light or whatnot. I find that this produces the most comfortable ride -- switching in a binary way between acceleration and full regenerative deceleration is jarring to me. (This is one gripe I have with Autopilot; it tends to toggle quickly between acceleration and deceleration when going around curves or whatnot, rather than picking an appropriate intermediate speed and sticking with it.) In other words, even if a dual-motor Tesla could produce more regenerative braking than a RWD model, that wouldn't make much difference to how it's used -- at least, not to me. If you prefer a more binary driving style (full-throttle acceleration and full regenerative braking, with little in-between), then it might be a different story.

Also, there is an option in the Tesla configuration menus to enable a full stop without touching the brake pedal. (I don't recall its name, but it's in there somewhere.) With this option enabled, the Tesla will apply the brakes to come to a complete stop once the car's speed drops enough that regenerative braking has little effect, even if you don't touch the brake pedal. This feature provides what is called "one-pedal driving" in some other EVs, and it blends regenerative braking and conventional brakes -- but only below a certain speed (somewhere between 2mph and 5mph, IIRC, but I don't recall the precise figure).

Yes the hold feature is what you are talking about and as I mentioned I'm very familiar with all the brake settings. My experience regarding the strength seems to be independent of all the variables one can be in control of or even observe so I'm trying to understand.

I want the option to perform harder stops without hitting the brakes, as the Y allows me to do. I can begin my stops later as opposed to sooner. It gives me more room to modulate as I like.

 

[ZapCarM3]

Tesla salespeople are not technical.
On my first Tesla, they told me the only fluid in the car was washer fluid. I was standing next to the wheel, and pointed at the clearly visible brake line and asked why that was there.....

A Tesla has washer fluid, brake fluid, coolant, gearbox oil, and refrigerant. All of those have maintenance schedules in the manual. So much for one fluid.

Yeah I even asked if today's model 3's come with heated steering and they said not yet. So even the non technical stuff it's really easy to get misinformed.