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Is Regen suddenly weaker / delayed?

Discussion in 'Model S: Driving Dynamics' started by kabirakhtar, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. kabirakhtar

    kabirakhtar but you can call me Kabir

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    had the S in for a charge port door replacement (it was only opening intermittently) yesterday. they took a look, replicated the problem, and replaced the entire charge port interface. they also looked into my case of brake booster not working, and escalated the case to engineering, who determined from logs that it was in fact the same issue reported here and corrected by the recent firmware update.

    but since I picked it up yesterday, regen has been noticeably weaker. in fact a couple times today, I let off the gas expecting regen but instead the car just coasted. the green meter on the dashboard indicated regen as normal, but there was no/minimal braking effect. I tapped the brake pedal, and then regen kicked in full. so I tried again, sped up and let off the gas- and no braking again, but this time it kicked in abou two seconds late. will obviously report this, but wondering if any of you have encountered this ...?
     
  2. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Check your regen setting and make sure it's still on Standard. Could be that the setting got changed to Low when it was in for service.

    screenshot_miriam_cid.jpg
     
  3. kabirakhtar

    kabirakhtar but you can call me Kabir

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    thanks - i had checked that, and it was correct. actually toggled it to Low then back to Standard, and i don't think that made a difference. reported it using the Bug Report voice feature. we'll see what happens.
     
  4. roblab

    roblab Active Member

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    As a long time S driver, I noticed a marked change with recent firmware updates.

    There had been many new drivers who were complaining of "neck snapping" regen. Rather than put it on low, they wrote to Tesla and lodged complaints on this forum.

    Tesla responded by having the regen modulate into slowing the car down rather than hit full regen immediately.

    Then more recently, they cut the regen down from a max of about 90 kW to a max of about 60 kW. I assumed it was to extend battery life, or something, although superchargers are able to put charge into the battery at a greater amount.

    Either way, the regen has gotten weaker. Where I used to drive up to traffic and simply pull my foot off the pedal, I now have to use brakes. I have a small hill that drops over to a stop sign. My wife and I both noticed that all of a sudden the car would not slow on the slope, and we must use brakes. We did not have to do that for about two years. Now we do.

    Of course, I have no proof. Tesla will do what they want. But rather than give us another button labeled "High" for greater than "Standard" and "Low", we all have to be cut back.

    I know many here who have complained about the recent cut back to poor regen. I hope they decide some of us can handle that. For a car company that has an "Insane" mode for acceleration, I would think they would give us back our regen.
     
  5. artsci

    artsci Sponsor

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    Damn the new drivers:) I much prefer stronger regen, although I really haven't noticed a change.

    Is it really true that higher regen has a negative effect on the battery? I have a hard time getting my head around that.
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    I haven't noticed any change either. I still slow on my "test" offramp just as fast as ever.

    If the limiter on full battery didn't come on it could be detrimental, but the limiter should protect the battery against any negative effects.
    I want it strong enough to be useful but not so strong that the car behind me hits me. Seems to me it's about right the way it is--at least I don't hear any screeching tires behind me when I stop. (.115)
     
  7. jerjozwik

    jerjozwik Member

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    more regen should not effect battery life anymore than a heavy right foot would.

    shame is the regen is getting nerfed.
     
  8. TES-E

    TES-E Member

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    I agree that regenerative does not seem as strong. I had two different situations today where regen alone would have done the job before. I had to use the brakes to slow down sufficiently. I guess I'll have to recalibrate my foot for now. I also want full regen back, unless it's harmful to the battery, which I doubt seriously. High... medium... low... sounds like a good compromise.
     
  9. bwa

    bwa Member

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    Here's how I think it SHOULD have been done, but apparently has not been yet:

    Presumably, the regen ought to put on break lights when the car is slowing down substantially (relative to natural forces (gravity, wind, air resistance, etc.), e.g., for hills when you would normally speed up a lot (such as going downhill), if you speed up LESS than normal due to regen, then the car behind you still needs to know, and analogously if you're going uphill, if you slow down more than the hill suggests you should, break lights should come on -- not sure if it should come on if you slow down equal to gravity, since a car might not expect that, and it would be helpful) even if you do not depress the brake pedal. Also presumably, a "high" setting on regen ought to pop up with a window explaining that it will slow the vehicle down pretty strongly compared to "standard" or "low". And another presumably, it ought to introduce the regen slowing effect at a slowly-increasing pace starting immediately (a function that should be learned from weight, gravity, mechanical condition, electric condition, etc., and adjusted continuously by software), and all of that should be done in such a way that you get plenty of regen, plenty of slowdown, and plenty of gentle increase in the pressure of the G forces so you have physical time to react to the forces with your body without any type of snapping. And another presumably, the autopilot safety ought to look at vehicles coming from behind, and react if they do not react quickly and/or enough, react to this (presumably usually by slowing down less) and place a yellow warning on your dash telling you the car has made this autosafety speed adjustment (so you can react to your normal routine being non-normal). All presumably ought to's. And all "armchair engineering". But it just "seems logical" to me.
     
  10. gmontem

    gmontem Model S P01707

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    Did you take that screen shot and how were you able to retrieve the image? This thread mentions how to take it but is missing info to access it.
     
  11. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    If he took the pic he's on an older FW version. With 6.1 the suspension etc was moved to a suspension tab.

    Ive also noticed that regen isn't as strong as it used to be. I sometimes wonder if when they toss out the FW of there shoudkbt be one for the Ds and one for the classics.
     
  12. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Oh, no - nothing fancy or up-to-date. That was just the first thing that came back in a Google image search for "tesla model s regen setting"
     
  13. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    So far, almost every firmware release has generated a "regen is less strong" thread. I really haven't noticed any difference. Perhaps you need a P85 to notice.
     
  14. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    maybe? I have a P85 but did drive a new 85 last week and if felt like my P85.
    Another thing to note: that at 60mph+ all our cars are basically equal meaning they will all go 60mph and none over take another (the D may be able to by a slight bit) so...I would think that the regen would be the same.

    All that hat being said I did used to sort of have a jerk reaction when my regen was initiated and its more smooth now which is nice because you don't know the difference between driving and slowing but want the same power back. I never got any pics but I used to go way over 60kwh on regen and now can barely get to 60kwh
     
  15. john01

    john01 Member

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    Since 6.0 regen is much weaker. Going down hill with the accelerator off, I gain speed. I hate it! I want the old regen back!
     
  16. mackgoo

    mackgoo Member

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    I have 2.2.115 and a basic model S. I have not noted any difference in regen.
     
  17. richrootes

    richrootes Member

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    I'm finding the Regen to be weaker now too with the very latest firmware. The version immediately prior seemed to have it back the way it was when I bought the car.

    I don't really mind either way - but it is the sort of thing that should be pointed out in the release notes, because our muscle memory places our ankle at a certain angle, and expects a predictable result. Changing the Regen messes with this.
     
  18. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    They need to put the Regen adjustability on a slider. From neck snapping on one end, to zero Regen on the other. This way everybody will be happy.
     
  19. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    This is amusing. I have noticed no difference to regen during the 13 months and 20K+ miles I have owned my 85. Have had multiple firmware upgrades. Currently on 6.1.115 or something like that.
     
  20. stevezzzz

    stevezzzz R;SigS;P85D;SigX

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    I noticed differences in regen strength and regen onset speed between my Sig S85 and the P85D almost immediately on taking delivery of the D. One day I set out to characterize the differences in the regen onset speed (i.e., the amount of time it takes the car to reach full regen after releasing the accelerator pedal or taking the car out of cruise control). You can see the results here:

    http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/40577-Firmware-6-1/page60?p=880615&viewfull=1#post880615


    Summary: The Sig S85 has the same regen onset speed in both cases (approximately one second, or less), while in the P85D it takes roughly twice as long to ramp up to full regen when you disable cruise control vs. simply taking your foot off the accelerator while driving normally (roughly two seconds vs. one second).

    As to whether regen is weaker now than it was under earlier software versions (both my cars are on .139), I can't really say. What I can say is that the perceived strength of full regen varies from minute to minute as the battery warms up, even after the regen limit disappears from the power meter. Also, I can say that full regen in the P85D is stronger than that in the S85: no surprise there.
     

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