Is Tesla holding back on MY performance acceleration?

[moswissa]

Hey guys,

So I got my MY performance today with the upgrade. So in love. I’m coming from a 335i with upgraded turbos which I still have. The MY performance simply quicker without a doubt, but do you guys think Tesla is holding back on it’s true performance ?

I drove my friends model 3 performance and it’s define my a lot quicker. Which the MY is heavier and less aerodynamic, I personally don’t think it would make that huge of a difference. My friend told me Tesla came out with an update that boosted it even faster. So you guys think Tesla will do the same or is this MY already updated? I would be interested to know.

 

[Nakk]

It's not just heavier, the larger diameter tires change the effective gearing. The change in diameter has almost the same effect on final gearing that going from 3.73 gears to 3.42 gears would be.

 

[moswissa]

It's not just heavier, the larger diameter tires change the effective gearing. The change in diameter has almost the same effect on final gearing that going from 3.73 gears to 3.42 gears would be.

interesting...

 

[frankvb]

But they have probably changed the internal gearing to compensate for the larger wheels. Since the motors in the 3 and Y are basically the same that seems logical.

 

[Krash]

The from standstill launch performance is determined by a software setting called max torque. Although we don't know what at what number it is set, it almost certainly is set below the motor limits. It is possible that setting was left at the same default as the P3 which, being heaver, will always make the PY slightly slower.

The higher frontal area's aerodynamic effect has little performance impact until much higher speeds.

To answer the thread title, yes, Tesla holds back performance on every car for warranty cost as well as positioning reasons. Likely the 3/Y as higher volume, lower margin cars than the S/X were built with less headroom.

 

[aronth5]

Tesla has held back on performance with every car they have built so why should the MY be different?

 

[spsheridan]

@moswissa, since this appears to be your first Tesla:
1) What is the charge level of the car? Acceleration is reduced at lower charge levels.
2) Is the car in Sport (vs. Chill) Acceleration mode?

 

[DDrawer]

I have heard that the P3 has more of an aggressive kick when stomping the throttle vs the Y. That is most likely what would be most noticeable when feeling the Y being slower (other than the fact that it factually is a bit slower I mean). I'd imagine that could be changed by jacking up the launch torque a bit, not sure if they could reliably though (probably).

 

[moswissa]

I was watching a YouTube video of a drag race between the 3 vs y vs x and they analyzed the performance stating that the 3 pulled harder initially but the y started to increase speed gradually to try and make up ground.

 

[moswissa]

@moswissa, since this appears to be your first Tesla:
1) What is the charge level of the car? Acceleration is reduced at lower charge levels.
2) Is the car in Sport (vs. Chill) Acceleration mode?

The car was on sport mode with about 50% charge.

 

[Krash]

State of charge has a huge effect on max power output. I doubt it changes initial observed torque though, just the much lower speed at which the car goes from being torque limited to power limited and then lower power at every speed thereafter.

 

[Y&CYT]

Hey guys,

So I got my MY performance today with the upgrade. So in love. I’m coming from a 335i with upgraded turbos which I still have. The MY performance simply quicker without a doubt, but do you guys think Tesla is holding back on it’s true performance ?

I drove my friends model 3 performance and it’s define my a lot quicker. Which the MY is heavier and less aerodynamic, I personally don’t think it would make that huge of a difference. My friend told me Tesla came out with an update that boosted it even faster. So you guys think Tesla will do the same or is this MY already updated? I would be interested to know.

This is great information and yes, Tesla has not allowed full torque on the Y yet...they will probably update it later. The Model y batter is 7% larger and horsepower advantage over Model 3 is similar according to this testing device used.

How are you finding the fun to drive factor compared to the 335I....I have a 228I with the M Sport package and I think I'll keep it for fun driving when I'm bored of my Y.

 

[DDrawer]

Model Y battery is not 7% larger. The youtuber was misinterpreting the readings (he mentioned so in the comments). Same battery, they probably just dialed up the power a bit to help offset the weight and aero differences. Hopefully that doesn't mean there isn't anymore room to turn it up a bit more. Or maybe just adjust the power to give more off the line.

 

[moswissa]

This is great information and yes, Tesla has not allowed full torque on the Y yet...they will probably update it later. The Model y batter is 7% larger and horsepower advantage over Model 3 is similar according to this testing device used.

How are you finding the fun to drive factor compared to the 335I....I have a 228I with the M Sport package and I think I'll keep it for fun driving when I'm bored of my Y.

That would be awesome if Tesla updates the model Ys torque profile, I really enjoyed the lunch the m3 has but for an SUV, this acceleration is more than enough.

The 335i is tiny bit more fun IMO. The power is a lot more raw, the sound it makes and the rear wheel sliding action makes it more attractive. Not to mention, the BMW community is very active, there are plenty car meets to attend, cool ppl to meet and do canyon runs with etc. the Tesla is super fast in a more organized and composed way, but still very fun. That’s just me though, to each their own.

 

[Nakk]

But they have probably changed the internal gearing to compensate for the larger wheels. Since the motors in the 3 and Y are basically the same that seems logical.

That would make sense to me too, but the owner's manuals for the Y and the 3 both state gearing is 9:1.

 

[MassPlay]

Been some interesting tests with impact of wheel weight and tires on acceleration with the Model 3/Y. Short answer is smaller and lighter wheel/tire package has a huge impact on acceleration and range. There is an 18" setup (Martian MW03) that are supposed to be super-light

 

[Jayson]

Tesla has not allowed full torque on the Y yet...they will probably update it later.

Curious where you were able to obtain info like this from.

 

[Y&CYT]

Curious where you were able to obtain info like this from.

In the link I posted a couple of posts up. Also several seat of the pants observations from people that have owned the Model 3 and now driving the Y indicates the same.

 

[Jayson]

In the link I posted a couple of posts up. Also several seat of the pants observations from people that have owned the Model 3 and now driving the Y indicates the same.

Not trying to be difficult, but how would you know Tesla has not allowed full torque yet? Have they publicly said that? I have not seen that said anywhere before.

 

[Krash]

The idea of "full torque" is nonsense. Tesla sets and occasionally increases max torque settings. There is no unlimited torque setting because without a max torque setting the motor would quickly destroy itself. Also the torque setting is matched to the tires.

In addition, the torque setting on the PY has to be higher than the P3. When you see the graph at 9:20 in Brooks Weisblat's DragTimes video above, the slope of the initial increase in power is considerably steeper on the PY. The difference in slope is due to a difference in torque. If someone wants to send me a PM with Brooks Weisblat's email I will ask him for the CANBus data to check. Normally we have been calculating the implied torque from that slope, but of course the CANBus data stream has torque embedded in it.

For me, the most interesting thing about that graph is the flatness of the power output after the peak on the Y. Brook comments on that briefly. Assuming the battery is the same, and that there are no major inverter breakthroughs, how can both motors have better Back EMF characteristics unless they are both new motor designs, either larger or more efficient? Even if the X axis is time instead of speed, the difference is mysteriously large.