Is Tesla losing its USP?

[Drew57]

I’ve never personally found any car dealerships that are genuinely customer focused. Our local BMW dealership is not bad actually, but most car dealerships are pretty dodgy, both in sales and service. People often criticise Tesla service, but I’ve never had a problem with them. On the contrary they’ve been very good. Sample of one, but it’s the one that counts for me.

I'm not talking about the 'Dealership' (ie SC) as mine has been exemplary, it's Corporate policy I'm referring to:

Eg: unreliable or no communication about delivery information, leaving the SCs to deliver cars in varying conditions with the customer required to report and wait for a fix, very low European stock levels of many parts, ambiguous premium connectivity until mid 2019, failing screens on Model S & X, charging for failing MCUs or Chademo to CCS on older models (which would be precluded from their own newer Superchargers), sometimes erratic & varying prices levels up-down which annoys recent or forthcoming purchasers, long standing promises for features which are coming by ...date or 'soon', software design - stupid or pointless software features prioritised over things like wipers, lights, dangerous phantom braking etc etc etc

 

[Traguar]

Mach E doesn't have any door handles - looks to be fun in cold winters

 

[Peteski]

No, the M3 was the best option for me at the time and I don’t regret buying it. But in my next car I want much better refinement and build quality, intelligent cruise control that doesn’t slam the brakes on for no reason and windscreen wipers and headlights that aren’t a constant source of irritation. Oh, and a decent binnacle display and a HUD. That pretty much rules Tesla out.

So what car will that be then?

 

[Peteski]

I'm not talking about the 'Dealership' (ie SC) as mine has been exemplary, it's Corporate policy I'm referring to:

Eg: unreliable or no communication about delivery information, leaving the SCs to deliver cars in varying conditions with the customer required to report and wait for a fix, very low European stock levels of many parts, ambiguous premium connectivity until mid 2019, failing screens on Model S & X, charging for failing MCUs or Chademo to CCS on older models (which would be precluded from their own newer Superchargers), sometimes erratic & varying prices levels up-down which annoys recent or forthcoming purchasers, long standing promises for features which are coming by ...date or 'soon', software design - stupid or pointless software features prioritised over things like wipers, lights, dangerous phantom braking etc etc etc

Yes I agree Tesla Corporate policy is a mess. But let’s not pretend the likes of VAG Corporate policies are “customer” focused. They didn’t exactly cover themselves in glory with the way they handled early ID3 customers. Shipping cars unfinished to hit their emissions targets. Then there’s dieselgate.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

I think this is one of those divisive personal things. My father-in-law would never stand a chance with a Tesla UI (due to eyesight issues), but I think it’s great.

More about where you live and the pattern of driving than anything else, I think. I don't have any real issues with summer driving, other than a lot of wind noise. This is my second winter with the Tesla, though, and one where I've done more night time driving, often in pretty bad weather. That's highlighted the inadequacies in the headlight and wiper function and controls (I still don't understand why the dip switch takes several goes to get it to work - not a fault according to the SC - within normal tolerance). The recent change to the speed display is a nuisance, but I'm hoping that will get put right before long, as enough people have raised the change as a safety concern, I believe.

FWIW, my corrected eye sight is fine, I still fly high performance aircraft, with no medical limitations. The issues are solely related to what is, by any normal HMI standard, a particularly poor layout and design by Tesla. The fact that some people can adapt themselves to get it to work OK doesn't change that, it is has quite a few inherently poor design features, some of which have got worse with the recent update to the display. It's clear that the display wasn't designed to be functional, first and foremost, it was designed to be stylish and look good. I like it, but it still needs to do its job, and a key part of that is conveying critical information with a sub-one second glance.

 

[adsheff]

There is still nothing close to the Tesla Supercharger network. That's worth it alone. And it's range is still the best out there.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Mach E doesn't have any door handles - looks to be fun in cold winters

It seems to have door handles for the front doors, if anything they look to be more functional than those on the Model 3, with the Mach E handles being fixed in position. There aren't handles on the rear doors, though. Model 3 handles are also a PITA in very cold weather, when they freeze up and need a hard bang to get them to work.

 

[Neilda]

The TM3 is unashamedly an EV - not trying to be something it's not. That, combined with the charging network is the reason I bought mine and I still think it's the EV that sets the benchmark for everyone else.

If the Jag had the network? Maybe could have been tempted, but not interested in the Porsche or Audi.

 

[Type2]

So what car will that be then?

Ask me in 18 months when I’ll be changing my car.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

There is still nothing close to the Tesla Supercharger network. That's worth it alone. And it's range is still the best out there.

Never needed to use it. Come to that, never needed to use a rapid charger either, either in the Tesla or the i3 I owned before it. As for range, there are cars available now, or some time this year, with ranges that come close to, or exceed, that of the Model 3 LR, so range probably won't be the deciding factor that makes someone choose a Tesla for that much longer.

 

[CYBER_Y]

MFW I get to the end of the thread and still don’t know what USP means

 

[15Peter20]

More about where you live and the pattern of driving than anything else, I think. I don't have any real issues with summer driving, other than a lot of wind noise. This is my second winter with the Tesla, though, and one where I've done more night time driving, often in pretty bad weather. That's highlighted the inadequacies in the headlight and wiper function and controls (I still don't understand why the dip switch takes several goes to get it to work - not a fault according to the SC - within normal tolerance). The recent change to the speed display is a nuisance, but I'm hoping that will get put right before long, as enough people have raised the change as a safety concern, I believe.

FWIW, my corrected eye sight is fine, I still fly high performance aircraft, with no medical limitations. The issues are solely related to what is, by any normal HMI standard, a particularly poor layout and design by Tesla. The fact that some people can adapt themselves to get it to work OK doesn't change that, it is has quite a few inherently poor design features, some of which have got worse with the recent update to the display. It's clear that the display wasn't designed to be functional, first and foremost, it was designed to be stylish and look good. I like it, but it still needs to do its job, and a key part of that is conveying critical information with a sub-one second glance.

Isn’t the main beam delay only something that happens when you’ve got auto dipping turned on?

Pretty sure mine responds immediately with auto dip disabled.

 

[Peteski]

More about where you live and the pattern of driving than anything else, I think. I don't have any real issues with summer driving, other than a lot of wind noise. This is my second winter with the Tesla, though, and one where I've done more night time driving, often in pretty bad weather. That's highlighted the inadequacies in the headlight and wiper function and controls (I still don't understand why the dip switch takes several goes to get it to work - not a fault according to the SC - within normal tolerance). The recent change to the speed display is a nuisance, but I'm hoping that will get put right before long, as enough people have raised the change as a safety concern, I believe.

FWIW, my corrected eye sight is fine, I still fly high performance aircraft, with no medical limitations. The issues are solely related to what is, by any normal HMI standard, a particularly poor layout and design by Tesla. The fact that some people can adapt themselves to get it to work OK doesn't change that, it is has quite a few inherently poor design features, some of which have got worse with the recent update to the display. It's clear that the display wasn't designed to be functional, first and foremost, it was designed to be stylish and look good. I like it, but it still needs to do its job, and a key part of that is conveying critical information with a sub-one second glance.

I’m not suggesting the Tesla UI is perfect, but for me it’s the best I’ve had by a fair margin. I never got along with BMW iDrive controls, or Porsche ergonomics. Our Nissan also had some badly positioned buttons and unresponsive touchscreen. I’ve driven Volvo’s with their latest touchscreen UI too and it wasn’t as good as Tesla’s. Merc controls are generally a mess too.

I prefer the Model 3 UI to the S/X too, but both work well for me. I have no issues with controlling wipers in the M3. But I know you do. Auto wipers are rubbish, as is auto main beam, but the controls are fine for me.

 

[Peteski]

Isn’t the main beam delay only something that happens when you’ve got auto dipping turned on?

Pretty sure mine responds immediately with auto dip disabled.

Correct.

 

[BK11SBY]

I went went for 2nd hand MS85 over my M3 reservation in the end, mostly due to boot/frunk space/access. The Supercharger network is important for anyone who will ever need to charge mid-journey. Most of the old school Auto makers haven't put any effort into thinking about how their customers will charge mid-journey and for some that won't matter.
I would love the competition to catch up, but for my needs we are still a long way off being able to replace our Model S with something that beats our now nearly 7 year old car.
I'm guessing the wiper and lights issue that bugs so many people is an issue with the M3?

In addition i've just got a brand new Toyota Corolla Sportback Hybrid through work and the SatNav/screen is about as detailed as the first colour Gameboy 20 years ago. 51mpg is about as good as it gets this time of year. Range when full of fuel says 705 miles, the most I get on a tank is 290! Also only drives about 2-3 miles on electric only, if you stick below 30mph. This from the mighty Toyota!

Plenty of BEVs available now in other sectors which are really good at fulfilling another need, short shopping trips, work commutes etc.

I still think in all the right places (Size and ease of charging away from home), Tesla have a few years in the bag still until the others fully catch up.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Isn’t the main beam delay only something that happens when you’ve got auto dipping turned on?

Pretty sure mine responds immediately with auto dip disabled.

Mine often takes two or three taps of the dip switch to get it to work, been mentioned here before, as some have the same apparent "deafness" with the indicators at times. It varies, sometimes the switch works instantly, other times it will take two or three goes to get it to work. It seems worse when it's being used very frequently, based on my experience. Worst case for me is a very windy stretch of road, with a fair few dips and crests, where there's a need to switch the lights frequently back to main after being dipped for oncoming traffic. It usually works fine for the first couple of times, then starts to become unresponsive. It never seems to have a problem switching from main to dip, only the other way around. I don't use the auto dip feature, as it false alarms on reflections, especially sharp bend warning chevrons, which it always interprets as oncoming traffic.

 

[Iain]

FWIW, my corrected eye sight is fine, I still fly high performance aircraft, with no medical limitations. The issues are solely related to what is, by any normal HMI standard, a particularly poor layout and design by Tesla. The fact that some people can adapt themselves to get it to work OK doesn't change that, it is has quite a few inherently poor design features, some of which have got worse with the recent update to the display. It's clear that the display wasn't designed to be functional, first and foremost, it was designed to be stylish and look good. I like it, but it still needs to do its job, and a key part of that is conveying critical information with a sub-one second glance.[/QUOTE]

HaHa, I take it you don’t fly an aircraft with a Honeywell FMS. Nothing is as poorly designed as that mess.

 

[PrGrPa]

Mach E doesn't have any door handles - looks to be fun in cold winters

The recessed handles of the Model S and Model 3 can be a challenge in freezing conditions with precipitation if you don't put the aircon/heating on early enough before leaving. Had to resort to spraying defroster solution or rubbing warm hands on them to persuade the doors to open on a couple of occasions. Planning...

 

[browellm]

Just before I collected my M3 I was parked next to an Audi e-tron at the supermarket. Owner returned as I was loading the boot, so I asked about it, particularly the range as it's a BIG car.
His reply: "On a good run I can get 190miles from full, but if I hoof it it will be down to double figures in no time"

I wouldn't want that kind of range anxiety.....

They are absolutely mahooosive, aren’t they?!

 

[Glan gluaisne]

HaHa, I take it you don’t fly an aircraft with a Honeywell FMS. Nothing is as poorly designed as that mess.

No, last type flown still had steam instruments, cockpit looked as if someone had taken a handful of instruments, thrown them in there, and fixed them where they landed, with no regard as to whether they were in a reasonable position.

I was involved in the HMI design for a new helicopter procurement, some years ago, though. The initial cockpit mock up for that included several iterations of different screens and controls. The big issue we ran into with touch screens in that was similar to the left handed use of small touch areas on the Model 3, the difficulty of performing a fine touch accurately first time in a dynamic environment. Interestingly, the problem was also similar to the RHD Model 3 one, in that it was always the pilot that had issues, because being in the RH seat with the collective locked and his right hand on the cyclic it meant using his left hand to use the screen. The observer/sensor and weapons operator in the LH seat didn't have anywhere near as much of a problem, probably because most of the crews we used for testing were either right handed, or left handers that had grown up in a right hand world.

After getting lots of crews to try out different options we ended up with a mix of interfaces, tactile buttons around the edges of the screens for some selections, plus a cursor control ball and push buttons on the centre console. I flew it in the sim a few times and found it pretty intuitive, although I think everyone finds that digital data presentation is a wee bit slower to take in than analogue, especially when the workload's high. Not helped by the fact that the systems are trying to present so much information now, masses more than used to be the case.