Is Tesla only good for local driving?

[RTPEV]

So what you've done here is apparently gone onto plugshare and specifically found a "hole" where there are no Superchargers and posted that snippet of the map. A few questions: is this actually an area where people would take road trips through the middle of? What is the scale of the map and how does the diameter of the "circle" compare to the range of a Tesla?

Let me help you out a bit. I went to supercharge.info and found the same area. But I turned on 175 mile range circles around each of the Superchargers in the ring:

As you can see, the entire ring is well covered (although admittedly these are as the crow flies circles), meaning that if you had some business practically anywhere within the inside of the ring, you could make it from the edge and back without much difficulty.

But let's say for example you wanted to travel from a point on the ring to the opposite side. Spokane to Pocatello looks like a good worst-case scenario. Let's see what Google Maps plots for a route:

It looks like the best route to take takes you right along the ring, and not through the middle (not surprising), so you should have no trouble at all with that journey.

Even if for some reason you wanted to take that "shortcut" from Missoula to Idaho Falls, that's a 300 mile leg without Superchargers. Could you do that?

Well, I suspect that there are some serious elevation changes there, so it may in fact be difficult, even in a long range Tesla. However, that is a 5 hour drive, so I suspect a meal break wouldn't be a bad idea as long as you are sightseeing. It just so happens that about halfway through that leg there is a Tesla destination charger in Salmon. According to ABRP you would need to stay there at least an hour and a half to get enough charge to comfortably make it to Idaho Falls, but at the same time I'm guessing that you have some interest in taking that diversion in the first place, so maybe you already have a stop in mind...

Turns out cutting across the ring in the "short" direction might actually be more of a challenge. How about Missoula, MT to Baker City, OR? Here is what Google says to do:

ABRP routes along the outer grey route, which adds 7 minutes versus the "cut through", but of course allows a comfortable trip. But again, let's say you really wanted to cut through the middle. This could be done with some long stops at L2 chargers/240V outlets, but yes, it would add significant time. Again, however, I would imagine there is some reason one would want to cut through the middle like this (maybe a camping trip or something), so the question becomes, during that journey, would you be parked somewhere anyway?

Maybe instead of posting maps with gaps in the network that are probably not an issue anyway, you could give us an example of an actual road trip you would take and we can actually see how difficult it would be?

I'll even help you with this...I've had some interactions with someone from Washington who does have a trip that is actually difficult in a Tesla! It's a fairly unique situation, but at least it's not so unique that it would appear completely contrived. The trip is from Seattle to Pullman, WA to drop his daughter off at school (a 4.5 hour drive one way) with an immediate turn around to drive back to Seattle. There is a 50kW CCS/CHAdeMO charger in Pullman, but without an adapter, it's not going to do much good. There are several L2 stations in Pullman, but that's not going to help the dad get back on the road to make this a one day trip. Routing this trip for a long range Model 3 does require a diversion to the Moses Lake and Ritzville Superchargers, which does add about 70 minutes (13%) of driving time to the trip. So yes, an inconvenience for sure. Certainly doesn't make it impossible though.

And one other thing to mention is that if you've been paying attention, the rate of expansion of the Supercharger network has really accelerated. Tesla is more or less making good on their promise to expand the Supercharger network in keeping with the number of cars they are producing. I would expect this to continue as Austin and Berlin come online, meaning that what you see in the network today will look very different a year from now. Expect many of those gaps to be filled, at least in areas where it actually makes sense. Like I said, I can contrive road trips that are difficult or impossible in a Tesla, but I don't believe that the number of people that would actually travel those routes exceed a couple of dozen altogether.

 

[jelloslug]

Is this a post for 2013?

 

[dduffey]

It's been my experience that taking a long trip with a Tesla [...] my Tesla [...] As a Tesla owner [...] if you are re-charging at a Supercharger, to continue a trip, you in many cases are only allowed a half hour charge (approximately 100 mi) [...] every 100 miles you have to find another Supercharger

Factually incorrect, obvious OP is pushing an agenda and not very well. This is their first and only post. Don't feed the trolls.

 

[srs5694]

I re-created the map posted by @oldteche and found that the Superchargers that seemed, on that map, to be most distant from each other (the Aberdeen Supercharger and the Forks Supercharger) are in fact 107 miles apart from each other, which is well within the range of any current production Tesla. Yes, there's a great big unserved area in the middle of the map that @oldteche posted, but that's a national park. I'm not personally familiar with the area, but Google Maps doesn't show much in the way of roads in that park. By zooming in, I managed to find one road leading to a visitor's center. I added that to my Google Maps route between those two Superchargers, and that increased the trip distance from 107 miles to 138 miles -- again, that's well within any Tesla's range. (There is the caveat that elevation changes or cold weather would reduce range, though, so maybe going to the visitor's center in winter in a Model 3 SR would be iffy.)

That said, Supercharger coverage is not as good as coverage by gas stations. I've seen other threads where people complain about limited Supercharger coverage in out-of-the-way areas. When I bought my car in 2019, one or two of the big western states had no Superchargers, for instance; but they've been added, and it looks like there are now Superchargers in every US state. That's not to say that coverage is perfect, but it is improving. What's more, most road trips don't involve journeys into rural Montana or national parks in Washington State. @oldteche claimed:

It's been my experience that taking a long trip with a Tesla is a joke or dedicated pursuit

This might be @oldteche's experience, but I don't believe that reflects the experiences of most people who drive in the US, if they were to drive a road trip in a Tesla. Certainly it's not been my experience. I've gone on several road trips in my Model 3 Long Range RWD. I live in Rhode Island, and I've taken my car to Niagara Falls, NY; Oberlin, OH; Cincinnati, OH; and Berkeley Springs, WV. I had no problems with charging on any of these trips.

However in my opinion, the introduction of a "North American CCS adapter" for the Tesla would be a game changer, since CCS availability is here.

This point hasn't yet been addressed in this thread, but it deserves attention. Tesla already sells a CHAdeMO adapter. Most CCS stations also provide CHAdeMO plugs, so Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter can help if you routinely take road trips through an area with poor Supercharger coverage but better CHAdeMO coverage. This used to be the case for parts of western Canada, for instance. There's also a third-party CCS adapter, which has advantages and disadvantages compared to Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter; but it has the similar feature of helping out in those corner cases where the Supercharger network is a bit thin. (See this very long thread about the CCS adapter for details. Note that the early posts are largely about problems that have since been resolved with firmware updates for the device. It's still not 100% reliable, but it's much better than it was when it first went on sale.) Tesla's CHAdeMO adapter costs $400 and is rarely in stock, whereas the Setec CCS adapter costs $564-$600 and is more readily available. Thus, neither is what I'd call cheap, but if you need them for your road trips, try to think of the cost as part of the cost of the car. (Initially, the Chevy Bolt's CCS port was an option that cost something like $400 or $500, IIRC. I believe it's standard now.) One big caveat about both these adapters is that they're limited in charging speed to 50kW (except for 80kW with the CCS adapter on older S and X vehicles). IMHO, that's still fast enough if you just need to do one or two CHAdeMO/CCS charges to cover a gap in the Supercharger network, or to add range at a destination for local driving.

Unfortunately, if you are re-charging at a Supercharger, to continue a trip, you in many cases are only allowed a half hour charge (approximately 100 mi), so "everyone" has the opportunity to re-charge. Therefore, every 100 miles you have to find another Supercharger.

I don't believe this is true. As others have said, at crowded Superchargers you may be limited to charging to 80%, but you can override that limit if necessary. What's more, I question the math. I just checked my TeslaFi logs from a recent road trip. At one Supercharger stop, I added 34.85 kWh (149 miles of rated range) in 22 minutes; a second added 30.36 kWh (131 miles of rated range) in 21 minutes; and a third added 35.6 kWh (152 miles of rated range) in 27 minutes. Thus, all of them added over 100 miles in under 30 minutes. Starting from a low SoC, I expect I'd have added closer to 200 miles in a 30-minute charging session. That said, my Model 3 LR RWD is one of the more energy-efficient Teslas out there, so perhaps a Model S or X would add something closer to the claimed 100 miles in 30 minutes of charging -- but as there's no 30-minute charging limit (AFAIK), one could stay longer if that was necessary.

In sum, the original post reads like FUD to me. I hope those who are considering buying a Tesla don't weight it heavily. There are numerous YouTube videos about driving road trips in a Tesla. A couple that I believe are noteworthy are this one by Shelby Church, which does a good job of showing the subjective experience; and this one on the Engineering Explained channel, which is more analytical and data-driven. I don't post YouTube videos, but I did write up an analysis of my first road trip in my Tesla on a Web page. IMHO, Teslas, as a group, make fine road-trip cars. There are exceptions -- people who make minimal stops, who drive into extremely rural areas, or who need to regularly drive along a route that's not well-served by Superchargers may be better served with a gas car right now. For most drivers, though, Teslas, and especially the longer-range models, work fine on road trips.

 

[ohmman]

Four years ago, I hauled a 22' Airstream with a Model X 90D through the discussed area, up through Glacier and Banff, over to BC, circuited the Olympic Peninsula (which had no Superchargers at the time), and returned to Sonoma. Supercharger density has increased dramatically since that time, and range has increased even when hauling a load.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for this argument.

 

[KJD]

Your map looks good, but it includes Supercharges and everything else. If your traveling, the J1772 won't be pleasant. Again, with the expansion of CCS, the availability of the CCS adapter would give you alternatives..

If you want a CCS adapter there is one available.

Amazon.com: Lectron CCS Charger Adapter for Tesla, 200A & 100-800V DC - for Tesla Owners Only, Now Access Fastest CCS Charging Stations Using CCS Adapter : Automotive

Amazon.com: Lectron CCS Charger Adapter for Tesla, 200A & 100-800V DC - for Tesla Owners Only, Now Access Fastest CCS Charging Stations Using CCS Adapter : Automotive

www.amazon.com

 

[oldteche]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences. Much appreciated. I look forward to future unimepeded trips.

 

[ULEWZ]

I have driven from Los Angeles to Post Falls, ID and from Los Angeles to Austin TX. Superchargers were only a problem where it told me to slow down to 60mph to make the next supercharger (that was not good as the semi's were passing me). Most of the distances between superchargers were 150 miles or less. One was just over 200 miles and caused problems. I do the flow of traffic speeds, which is not very economical, but is what it is. The AP works great for me on the highway and reduces fatigue which is good, but the hand on wheel nanny is problematic, even when your hand is on the wheel! The average stop at a supercharger is 20 to 30 minutes. The drive and frequent stops are stress free, but it takes about 2 extra hours per day vs ICE. I have taken the Tesla twice, and the Acura twice, and have decided the savings of 2 hours per day is worth it to take the Acura. I usually go 200 miles to 250 miles between stops with the Acura, and the stops are no more than 5 minutes, so that is where the time savings come from. I was also concerned with the fires in northern California if I had to reroute and then have trouble finding a supercharger. So for short to medium travels, I will take the Tesla. For longer routes, I will take the Acura. Just my 2 cents.

P.S. The seats in the Tesla were perfect for me and the spousal unit on the long drives.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

In all seriousness, there obviously lots of holes to fill, but Tesla is continuing to fill them. In some places they're mainly increasing density and charging speed (v3 over v2) along Interstates, but in others they're focusing more on locations on US Numbered Highways.

And the good thing about Tesla's approach is that when they do add Superchargers, even in less busy areas, they don't do it by halves, and if the local grid can support it, Tesla adds 8 v3 stalls and with 2 cabinets to provide greater protection against equipment failures, ICEing or a busier period.

For example, Tesla recently opened an 8-stall v3 in Farmington, ME that helps to fill along US-2E, as well as state highways ME-4 and ME-27 that improve access to mountain* recreation areas and a route to Canada. The same location has 2 Chargepoint CCS/CHAdeMO chargers and they are only 62.5kW.

It all just takes time. Might need 5,000 "coverage" locations to have a dense network with 40 mile spacing in the contiguous states.

Plus, the good thing about driving minor roads is that the lower speeds increase range, so even if you have to divert to a charger, which significantly ups the miles:charge ratio.

EVs are long trip vehicles. It's just that the set of long trips is incomplete but growing.

* Yeah, yeah, we know.

 

[srs5694]

The average stop at a supercharger is 20 to 30 minutes. The drive and frequent stops are stress free, but it takes about 2 extra hours per day vs ICE.

I see this sort of claim from time to time, but it doesn't track with my own experience. Even in an ICE vehicle, I need to add 15-20% to the drive time for my own needs -- to eat, use the bathroom, and rest. Not doing this would be very unpleasant, as well as dangerous because of driver fatigue. Of course, if you're traveling with one or more other drivers, so you can trade off driving duty, it wouldn't be dangerous to drive straight through, so I suppose if you're going for ultimate speed with two or more drivers and eating in the car, a Tesla might slow down a trip by a bit. For my needs, though, I find that my Model 3 doesn't slow me down at all compared to an ICE vehicle. The only drawbacks are that I'm more limited in where I can stop, and I have to plan those stops in advance.

 

[MrWattson]

We just did a trip from Central NJ to Buffalo two weekends ago. Our first stop was Binghamton NY to charge after a couple hours. This is the same area in which we would make a gas/bathroom/road food stop in our ICE trips for years. We charged about 30 minutes which is minimally more than our ICE stops as we hit a gas station then jumped over to a stop for bathroom and road food. With MY - we ate while charging versus while driving. A bit more pleasant and relaxed.

Our next stop was in Syracuse for a 15-20 hit of juice to get us to Buffalo. In my old vehicle, I would have made a bathroom/coffee stop along the NYS Thruway as well. So again minimally more time overall to destination.

That being said - I did need to charge the next morning in BUF to give me range during my stay. The hotel did not have a destination charger.

 

[ULEWZ]

I see this sort of claim from time to time, but it doesn't track with my own experience. Even in an ICE vehicle, I need to add 15-20% to the drive time for my own needs -- to eat, use the bathroom, and rest. Not doing this would be very unpleasant, as well as dangerous because of driver fatigue. Of course, if you're traveling with one or more other drivers, so you can trade off driving duty, it wouldn't be dangerous to drive straight through, so I suppose if you're going for ultimate speed with two or more drivers and eating in the car, a Tesla might slow down a trip by a bit. For my needs, though, I find that my Model 3 doesn't slow me down at all compared to an ICE vehicle. The only drawbacks are that I'm more limited in where I can stop, and I have to plan those stops in advance.

Sorry, not a claim, it is fact in my case. And yes, the wife and I share driving duties and stop for the night half way. I have done this 4 times, so I know it to be fact, but believe what you want. I was just expressing my experiences. Did I enjoy the Tesla long distance driving experience, yes. Would I do it again, maybe. Was the Ice more time efficient, yes, not a doubt in my mind.

By the way, 12 supercharger stops vs 5 gas stops. Do the math.

 

[DelPhonic1]

Is this a post for 2013?

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Skotty]

In my limited usage, I have not seen a discussion about re-charging troubles experience during a long trip. So, I thought I would bring the subject up. It's been my experience that taking a long trip with a Tesla is a joke or dedicated pursuit . Don't get me wrong, I love my Tesla, believe in what it represents, and would not change my decision to purchase one.

As a Tesla owner I was shocked to realized that the Tesla, pracitically speaking, is only good for local driving. Just taking one long or two or more day trips. Outside of major metropolitan corridors and areas there are relatively few if any Tesla Superchargers. As a traveller, you therefore are dependent on a J1772 charging station. The J1772 charge time is unrealistic, so as they say, "you are up the creek without a paddle". Therefore, Tesla Superchargers are your only hope.

Unfortunately, if you are re-charging at a Supercharger, to continue a trip, you in many cases are only allowed a half hour charge (approximately 100 mi), so "everyone" has the opportunity to re-charge. Therefore, every 100 miles you have to find another Supercharger.

Now, with Tesla's recent decision to make Superchargers available to the general EV public, you have the added inconvenience of a potential queued line. I consider this decision a slap in the face.

However in my opinion, the introduction of a "North American CCS adapter" for the Tesla would be a game changer, since CCS availability is here.

What's your experience?

I would disagree with this assessment. Tesla Superchargers are not as prolific as gas stations, for sure, and it does require some planning to make the appropriate stops. But Tesla Superchargers are pretty much everywhere along highways now and they are really task specific to long trips. It is precisely the capability they add to EVs that no other automaker has. I've taken mine on multiple trips across the middle of America in places where EV chargers don't exist for the most part, but there are still Tesla Superchargers every 100 miles or so.

It takes longer in an EV over a gas car on a long trip, but this is ultimately balanced out -- for at least those folks who can charge at home -- by the convenience of never visiting a fuelling station on a regular day to day basis.

I have not heard of any time limits being enforced at Tesla superchargers. Is that actually happening? The problem of lolly gagging at the chargers is supposed to be controlled via the idle charges.

 

[Lynnster]

Love this string and thanks to all who provided input. I have a 2021 Model X and am traveling from Ohio to Vermont next week. According to my trip navigation, it looks like it's routing me to my final destination with only 25% battery level. I downloaded the app for EVgo and PlugShare and found a couple chargers nearer my destination....though I have no experience with these. So I have to research before I leave.....though they do indicate $.35/kwh.....but last month I was charged $8 at a Super Charger, so still less then gas. Thanks all.

 

[RichAZ/CapeCod]

This past April went from south of Tucson AZ to Cape Cod. Easy-peasy trip!

 

[ULEWZ]

Love this string and thanks to all who provided input. I have a 2021 Model X and am traveling from Ohio to Vermont next week. According to my trip navigation, it looks like it's routing me to my final destination with only 25% battery level. I downloaded the app for EVgo and PlugShare and found a couple chargers nearer my destination....though I have no experience with these. So I have to research before I leave.....though they do indicate $.35/kwh.....but last month I was charged $8 at a Super Charger, so still less then gas. Thanks all.

25% is nothing to worry about. I would recommend 10% left. It will make you pucker the first few times, but once you trust it, the charging rate is faster, so less time at the supercharger.

 

[SwampNut]

25% is nothing to worry about. I would recommend 10% left. It will make you pucker the first few times, but once you trust it, the charging rate is faster, so less time at the supercharger.

I ran my car to 1% on purpose on one trip. Just to be sure it can do it. Now I simply do not sweat 10% at all.

 

[mbp11]

I have a 2018 Model X and have suffered from Range Anxiety (Tesla diagnosis) and very early on bought a CHAdeMO adaptor. I am planning my first long trip from the SF Bay Area to Boulder Colorado this September and I might not need it, the route is pretty well littered with superchargers. However in preparation, I tested the CHAdeMO adaptor out and it failed to charge on a few attempts. Having read on this forum that some needed a firmware update, I took it in to my service center and they did the firmware update right then and there and when I tested it, it now works. However there are tricks to hooking the adaptor up, it is hard to get it to "click" into the adapter, you have to practice it before going on a trip. Just my experience. Test it before the trip!

 

[RTPEV]

I have driven from Los Angeles to Post Falls, ID and from Los Angeles to Austin TX. Superchargers were only a problem where it told me to slow down to 60mph to make the next supercharger (that was not good as the semi's were passing me). Most of the distances between superchargers were 150 miles or less. One was just over 200 miles and caused problems. I do the flow of traffic speeds, which is not very economical, but is what it is. The AP works great for me on the highway and reduces fatigue which is good, but the hand on wheel nanny is problematic, even when your hand is on the wheel! The average stop at a supercharger is 20 to 30 minutes. The drive and frequent stops are stress free, but it takes about 2 extra hours per day vs ICE. I have taken the Tesla twice, and the Acura twice, and have decided the savings of 2 hours per day is worth it to take the Acura. I usually go 200 miles to 250 miles between stops with the Acura, and the stops are no more than 5 minutes, so that is where the time savings come from. I was also concerned with the fires in northern California if I had to reroute and then have trouble finding a supercharger. So for short to medium travels, I will take the Tesla. For longer routes, I will take the Acura. Just my 2 cents.

P.S. The seats in the Tesla were perfect for me and the spousal unit on the long drives.

It seems I've had the opposite experience...but I guess that's me (and my wife).

With our annual trip to my in-laws' camp in northern NY (800+ miles one-way) I tracked our Google Timeline stats on the trip for several years (going back to when we took an ICE car). Gas stops were almost 11 minutes each on the dot, because we didn't literally just fill up with gas, but also went in to use the restroom and grab a drink. Meal stops (usually at a Subway) were almost always 24 minutes (it may not seem it, but by the time you go in, choose your sandwich, have it made, eat it and get back in the car, that's how much time goes by). As I mentioned before, thanks to the fact that their camp is fairly remote, the first gas stop of the day was usually within 90 minutes, and we usually had to stop 2 more times for gas (the last time if only to take advantage of cheap Virginia gas before going back into NC). That's 30 minutes there, plus another 48-60 minutes for lunch and dinner, and usually we made at least one other 5-10 minute stop for a rest/snack break. 12.5 hours of active driving plus the stops and it was usually about a 15 hour day.

This past year we made the trip during COVID and pretty much tried to avoid stops altogether. We ordered food online via app and picked it up curbside and took it to the Supercharger to eat. Some Superchargers were at convenience chains so we could use the restroom there, but others were not, so we did stop at highway rest areas for bathroom breaks. All in all, we made the trip in 14 hours, with 61 minutes of actual charging. So when we had to, we actually did better in the Tesla than with the ICE.

Like I said, this is how my wife and I travel. I recognize that others are different. I did plug your trip into ABRP, however, and saw that my car can make the trip with 8 Supercharger stops and a total of 2 hours and 35 minutes of charging on just over 20 hours of active driving. You absolutely must have bladders of steel if you can make that long a trip with 5 5-minute gas stops and only 10 more minutes for the whole trip to use the bathroom!

Tesla seats, for me anyway, do not cut it. The center console area does not leave enough room for my right leg that I have to awkwardly position for long distances. That is the problematic thing for me about road trips in my Model 3. I have set up a Road Trip profile that moves the seat up and back, and it helps a bit, but still not as comfortable as other cars.