Is Tesla opening two SuperCharger sites a day anytime soon?

[Ulmo]

Well then, you may want to enlighten people as to why it is not remotely similar.

@sorka was talking about SuperChargers and you were talking about destination chargers. SuperChargers require a lot of power, transformers, and AC-DC charge cabinets that cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars in aggregate, and probably tens of thousands of dollars per stall (I'd like a more realistic number; obviously, costs could come down). A J1772 plug installed in existing small business infrastructure can cost less than $400 (but usually on the order of a few thousand dollars per stall). I'm not privy to the numbers, but I'd guess somewhere like ten times the cost for SuperCharger (as Elon would say, "an order of magnitude"), and a hell of a lot more resources and coordination with government (for space and safety) and utility (for grid provisioning*, wiring and transformers).

* I think we all know what provisioning means, but for the benefit of those who don't: making certain enough resources in the whole system are allocated for this use, which in the case of an electric utility grid, can come in the form of a yes or no, and in the case of "no", the other option from "no" (such as a new factory for which no is not an answer) is expanding the grid, which can be millions of dollars and up depending on how full the grid is.

I hate the word "provisioning" since decades ago usually telecoms would use it to tell us we can't do high speed data when obviously we could with fiber, but even though it's used as a lie to ask for more money by big corporations, in fact, it is a real thing at some level (hidden away as it were behind the lies trotted out all in the name of getting a fair price, which means sometimes the price is fair and sometimes it isn't).

===

I love destination chargers and what you do, generally. Pictures of Parking Lots with Many Chargers (>=20)

I suppose from a same-cost perspective, a SuperCharger merely serves fewer cars than a set of destination chargers. I'd expect such a set of destination chargers to be so numerous as to require a multi-million dollar parking garage or parking lot to be installed in. If that's the stuff you do, awesome, but it's still different. SuperChargers are concentrated charging, high heat operations (and awesome engineering), whereas destination charging is distributed (and structurally awesome).

 

[FlyF4]

@sorka was talking about SuperChargers and you were talking about destination chargers. SuperChargers require a lot of power, transformers, and AC-DC charge cabinets that cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars in aggregate, and probably tens of thousands of dollars per stall (I'd like a more realistic number; obviously, costs could come down). A J1772 plug installed in existing small business infrastructure can cost less than $400 (but usually on the order of a few thousand dollars per stall). I'm not privy to the numbers, but I'd guess somewhere like ten times the cost for SuperCharger (as Elon would say, "an order of magnitude"), and a hell of a lot more resources and coordination with government (for space and safety) and utility (for grid provisioning*, wiring and transformers).

* I think we all know what provisioning means, but for the benefit of those who don't: making certain enough resources in the whole system are allocated for this use, which in the case of an electric utility grid, can come in the form of a yes or no, and in the case of "no", the other option from "no" (such as a new factory for which no is not an answer) is expanding the grid, which can be millions of dollars and up depending on how full the grid is.

I hate the word "provisioning" since decades ago usually telecoms would use it to tell us we can't do high speed data when obviously we could with fiber, but even though it's used as a lie to ask for more money by big corporations, in fact, it is a real thing at some level (hidden away as it were behind the lies trotted out all in the name of getting a fair price, which means sometimes the price is fair and sometimes it isn't).

===

I love destination chargers and what you do, generally. Pictures of Parking Lots with Many Chargers (>=20)

I suppose from a same-cost perspective, a SuperCharger merely serves fewer cars than a set of destination chargers. I'd expect such a set of destination chargers to be so numerous as to require a multi-million dollar parking garage or parking lot to be installed in. If that's the stuff you do, awesome, but it's still different. SuperChargers are concentrated charging, high heat operations (and awesome engineering), whereas destination charging is distributed (and structurally awesome).

Thanks. I get your point now And since I am an electronics engineer, I knew this, but many probably don't.

 

[sorka]

Even if that happens how are they going to go from "permit application" (assuming in the next few weeks) to construction completed and open for business before the end of 2017 on 17 new Bay Area supercharger locations?

Still no new permit or construction, or opening activity in CA since December 16th.

 

[FlyF4]

Still no new permit or construction, or opening activity in CA since December 16th.

Uh, there are actually 9 new permits. Wherever you are looking to see updated information is not up to date.

 

[X Fan]

Uh, there are actually 9 new permits. Wherever you are looking to see updated information is not up to date.

What site are you using to validate?....supercharge.info shows 14 permits nationally with zero in Cal. (and we know one, Statesville, NC is not valid)....

 

[David99]

Only 8 Superchargers opened in the US in the last month and since this thread was started. At this pace, we would get 56 new stations by the end of the year. I don't see any chance Tesla can keep their goal.

 

[sorka]

Uh, there are actually 9 new permits. Wherever you are looking to see updated information is not up to date.

That would be:

supercharge.info

which is the definitive source for consolidated supercharger development activity.

If you have another source, you're going to make a lot of people very excited.

So, what's your source??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Sonny Daze]

Electrek claims there are permits or construction underway at over 40 locations.

Tesla’s Supercharger expansion is in full swing ahead of Model 3 production

 

[Missile Toad]

188 stalls added in 106 days (since Feb. 15, 2017)

10 Arlington Supercharger
8 Athens, AL Supercharger
add 4 Barstow Supercharger
add 2 Cordes Lakes Supercharger
add 4 Culver City Supercharger
add 4 Dublin-Amador Plaza
8 El Paso Supercharger
8 Flatonia Supercharger
8 Florida City Supercharger
add 8 Gilroy Supercharger
8 Klamath Falls Supercharger
10 Las Vegas Blvd South Supercharger
10 Little Rock Supercharger
14 Milford - Boston Post Road Supercharger
12 Monroe, WA Supercharger
10 Myrtle Beach Supercharger
8 Naples Supercharger
add 2 Primm Supercharger
8 Santa Fe Supercharger
8 Sidney Supercharger
8 Tupelo Supercharger
8 Van Horn Supercharger
8 Waterloo Supercharger
10 Wilmington Supercharger

The above data comes from the tesla.com 'findus' data store, which I'm downloading at least weekly.
'add' indicates that the site expanded by that number. Otherwise, each site listed above is new.
188 stalls added in about 106 days, or 1.77 stalls per day
213 days left in the year. Will we add 376, or more?

Details of prior or continuing expansion discussed at TMC.

 

[kort677]

188 stalls added in 106 days (since Feb. 15, 2017)

adding more charging stalls to existing sites is good for those places that see high usage but for me that is not the expansion of the network many of us were hoping to see.
I know that this is a marathon and not a sprint but many more new locations are needed to expand the routes and places that can be visited and be able to use the SpCs

 

[FlyF4]

That would be:

supercharge.info

which is the definitive source for consolidated supercharger development activity.

If you have another source, you're going to make a lot of people very excited.

So, what's your source??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Agree sorka that supercharge.info is a really good source for data, BUT as you likely know, the information to them is often delayed by sometimes as much as a month, occasionally much faster. I am basing this variation on my experience with helping destination locations to design, apply for permits, and monitor installations. In the process I come in contact with people installing super chargers. So while the "source" is not one you can readily access on the internet, the info can be obtained at most local building departments where the chargers are being installed. Some building departments are more willing to share that information than others.

Also as an update, I mistyped the "9" permits in process above. It is "8", but close enough.

 

[BerTX]

Agree sorka that supercharge.info is a really good source for data, BUT as you likely know, the information to them is often delayed by sometimes as much as a month, occasionally much faster. I am basing this variation on my experience with helping destination locations to design, apply for permits, and monitor installations. In the process I come in contact with people installing super chargers. So while the "source" is not one you can readily access on the internet, the info can be obtained at most local building departments where the chargers are being installed. Some building departments are more willing to share that information than others.

Also as an update, I mistyped the "9" permits in process above. It is "8", but close enough.

supercharge.info is crowd sourced by people on TMC doing research and looking for construction activity. YOU are their source! If you have information and are not reporting it, then perhaps that is the reason it is "often delayed"?

 

[sorka]

Agree sorka that supercharge.info is a really good source for data, BUT as you likely know, the information to them is often delayed by sometimes as much as a month, occasionally much faster. I am basing this variation on my experience with helping destination locations to design, apply for permits, and monitor installations. In the process I come in contact with people installing super chargers. So while the "source" is not one you can readily access on the internet, the info can be obtained at most local building departments where the chargers are being installed. Some building departments are more willing to share that information than others.

Also as an update, I mistyped the "9" permits in process above. It is "8", but close enough.

Honestly, you're saying that you heard about 8 new permits in California doesn't cut it. You could start by listing the 8 new locations and getting that data submitted to suprcharge.info right away.

 

[sorka]

BTW, Yerma, CA just popped up today on supercharge.info. Longest CA SC dry spell on record broken

Still wondering how Tesla is going to add 17 new locations completed in the Bay Area alone by the end of 2017 without single permit discovered for any of them.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

BTW, Yerma, CA just popped up today on supercharge.info. Longest CA SC dry spell on record broken

I know what I'll be doing this evening.

 

[FlyF4]

supercharge.info is crowd sourced by people on TMC doing research and looking for construction activity. YOU are their source! If you have information and are not reporting it, then perhaps that is the reason it is "often delayed"?

Good point if I were the "source". But it isn't my job to report updates on crowd sourced sites Sometimes I report things when I see there is not new information.

 

[FlyF4]

Honestly, you're saying that you heard about 8 new permits in California doesn't cut it. You could start by listing the 8 new locations and getting that data submitted to suprcharge.info right away.

No, I didn't "HEAR" about it. I am involved in some of those 8. I usually send some updates when I am doing something like now.... waiting for the dentist If people are going to get sarcastic, then I will just stop posting things like that altogether and let folks figure it out when it happens.

 

[sorka]

No, I didn't "HEAR" about it. I am involved in some of those 8. I usually send some updates when I am doing something like now.... waiting for the dentist If people are going to get sarcastic, then I will just stop posting things like that altogether and let folks figure it out when it happens.

Nice. So you say my source isn't up to date yet not only will you not disclose your source, you won't even disclose the locations?

 

[Missile Toad]

Shrinkage?

I looked at the Tesla SuperCharger data today (which Tesla 'prettyfies' at Wausau Supercharger | Tesla ), and discovered that the Wausau, Wisconsin site lost two of its SuperChargers. Looking at Plugshare photos, it seems that the site is made up, entirely, of temporary Superchargers. So in addition to expansion, apparently some sites are getting pruned.

 

[kort677]

Shrinkage?

I looked at the Tesla SuperCharger data today (which Tesla 'prettyfies' at Wausau Supercharger | Tesla ), and discovered that the Wausau, Wisconsin site lost two of its SuperChargers. Looking at Plugshare photos, it seems that the site is made up, entirely, of temporary Superchargers. So in addition to expansion, apparently some sites are getting pruned.

is that necessarily a bad thing? some locations see little traffic, could this be one of them?