TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Is Tesla stalling homologation/deliveries to foreign markets to get more cash faster?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by linaser, Oct 22, 2012.

?

Is Tesla stalling homologation/deliveries to foreign markets to get more cash faster?

  1. Yes, Tesla is prioritizing U.S. P-Cars to get more cash faster

    10 vote(s)
    20.4%
  2. No, Tesla is doing the best they can to get Sigs to foreign markets as fast as possible

    39 vote(s)
    79.6%
  1. linaser

    linaser Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    114
    This topic was part of the “How many P-cars before first Sig for Europe?” thread, but the discussion has shifted to the question above, so I thought it would make sense to open a poll on that.

    Before you decide, please read the following arguments:

    Lets say they have two reservations:
    a) European Sig. Model S, 40k$ (=liability to reservation holder), Price: 95k$
    b) U.S. general production P85, 5k$ (=liability to reservation holder), Price: 90k$

    Depending on what reservation Tesla will fulfill first different things happen:

    a) Tesla manufactures/delivers the European Sig. reservation first:
    - Tesla will get an additional 55k$ in cash (they already have 40k$)
    - Tesla will recognize 95k$ as additional revenue

    b) Tesla manufactures/delivers the U.S. P-P85-car reservation first:
    - Tesla will get an additional 85k$ in cash (they already have 5k$)
    - Tesla will recognize 90k$ as additional revenue

    What this means is that if Tesla wants to have more money in their bank accounts, which they can use to pay bills and wages, then they probably will try fulfill the U.S. P-P85-Reservation first. This could mean, that Tesla could stall homologation / manufacturing for foreign markets to get their hands at more cash faster.

    If their goal is to get as much revenue as fast as possible and they are satisfied with their cash situation, they would probably not try to delay foreign deliveries as long as possible.

    So what do you think; Is Tesla stalling foreign homologation/deliveries to get more cash faster?
     
  2. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    I really doubt that has even crossed their minds. They just need to get their production ramp done and the money will take care of itself.
     
  3. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    4,266
    They have $200 million from the stock offering. They have no need to play games to accumulate more cash.
     
  4. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,257
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Seriously? I'm Sig Special List #183, I don't have my car yet and I'm not alone. If Tesla was delivering P3,000 in the U.S. and was stalling there might be something to talk about but otherwise this is "moon landing" speculation.

    +1.
     
  5. Grendal

    Grendal Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2012
    Messages:
    2,519
    Location:
    Santa Fe, New Mexico
    I agree with Doug, Tesla is hopefully completely focused on getting their ramp up complete so they are manufacturing at full capacity. At this point that is what will make or break this company. They have a proven great product. They have the factory and the people to build that product. They have a long line of customers waiting to buy and receive the product. What they are missing at this point is having the product to give to thoise customers. The ramp up to full production capacity while maintaining build quality has to be priority #1.
     
  6. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2012
    Messages:
    4,279
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I agree that Tesla has not even made a decision yet. I expect they have a Homologation group that is working towards an EU spec car (assuming they have a Canadian spec car all done). When that group finally gets approval from the EU, and figures out a RHD layout then Tesla will ask themselves this question. My bet is they do the EU Signatures as quickly as practical, to open up new markets and sell more cars.

    But right now they aren't even thinking about it.
     
  7. Oyvind.H

    Oyvind.H Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2012
    Messages:
    345
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    Fingers crossed that they`ll make more than 20.000 cars next year, as the demand is growing! A year waitinglist is just too much to get the much needed volume up.
     
  8. Laumb

    Laumb smrtass.

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    Lost in Norway
    Im betting that if Tesla gets another 20'000 reservations after the car hits the streets in orker parts of the world. Magne after a few months, they will ramp up..
    I don't know where in the factory model X is going to be made, but an extra shift on Model S ramps it up to 40k cars / year. Then when the dust settles they May use one shift on the model X instead. Also it will be pretrained straff, so no big problems there.

    Ramp up in May maybe, with a backlog on S at ~20'000 cars from that date would suit a second shift well.


    _____
    Tapatalkin' from iTalatut.
     
  9. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    Of course, much of this speculation is based upon the premise that ALL sigs will deliver before production models, Canadian, European or otherwise. It is also entirely possible that each market is considered separate and distinct, and regardless of what is going on in one market (US), the other markets are moving at the quickest pace possible with the plan being that the sigs in that respective market will start delivery before the production models start in that respective market. Homologation may be the hold up and deciding factor.

    But let's look at other factors, specifically for the EU markets. Deliveries will require loading the cars on a transport ship and transporting to a distant port, arriving, unloading, performing PDI and arranging for final deliveries to awaiting customers. This process could easily take a 2 weeks to a month or more, and I really don't see US production deliveries stopping completely while this process occurs.

    What I see regularly posted is angst that US production models will start delivery before sigs in the Canadian or EU markets. I think based upon the above, it's entirely possible, nee likely, that that will happen, but the Canadian and EU sig-reserved customers will start receiving their cars before any production cars arrive to those destinations.
     
  10. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2010
    Messages:
    15,851
    Location:
    Ottawa, Canada
    Tesla did say that production of Canadian Signatures would follow completion of USA Sigs, and they have confirmed that recently. That said, they did not make that promise for European sales. AFAIK the plan was always to launch European sales a bit later on.
     
  11. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    I would think that production of Canadian sigs would follow a natural progression from US sigs, given the proximity and decreased homologation requirements. I'm betting that's what we'll see in reality. The EU, OTOH, will likely get their cars a bit later on as you pointed out, similar to how US versions of european cars are typically significantly delayed to market (sometimes up to a year time difference).
     
  12. Laumb

    Laumb smrtass.

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2012
    Messages:
    320
    Location:
    Lost in Norway
    But then again, Canadian cars are pretty much the same as European cars. The lights Are the same (well, in Norway and the other northern countries), except South europe where theyre not required to be on at all times.

    The only real difference I see is power/charging and crash-testing, as there are not any emissions to talk About..


    _____
    Tapatalkin' from iTalatut.
     
  13. spatterso911

    spatterso911 MSP#7577 **--** MX#1891

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,213
    Location:
    Rancho Cucamonga, CA
    True, but I would say that lights are a minimal change-over. 3-phase charging and crash testing is a delayed/slow modification. I could be totally wrong, and they have 3-phase charging completely figured out and ready to implement. I'd be very doubtful that the crash testing is completed though.
     
  14. linaser

    linaser Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    114
    I think, you're right Tesla should and is focusing on production ramp up. But is focusing on one thing not always the same as reducing efforts in other areas? What I mean is, that Tesla could be delaying European homologation because it is much easier to just continue manufacturing for the U.S. market. Keeping more money in their accounts, might not be the main reason, but that fact could help Tesla in making the decision to delay European homologation.

    As a EU Sig reservation holder I certainly do hope, that they are thinking about how and when they will make efforts to complete European homologation and start manufacturing.

    I think Tesla should try do accommodate European Signature reservation holders, who are paying a premium mainly to get their cars early and that they should not delay homologation on purpose, because it is more convenient to continue to manufacture U.S. general production cars for 6 months or so.
     
  15. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,063
    If Telsa was interested in cash over customers they would have delivered Washington State cars earlier or on time.
    Their deposit money is still sitting in escrow while their deliveries seem to lag behind some other regions.
     
  16. KBF

    KBF Model S 2017

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2009
    Messages:
    557
    Location:
    Steinbach, MB, Canada
    While I'm slightly impatiently waiting for my Signature, I do believe that if it was up to Tesla they would in fact deliver all the Sigs worldwide first and it is not some sort of intentional/planned delay, especially not for cash purposes. Homologation is a two-way deal; they depend on bureaucracies, to slowly grind their way forward. I imagine that the EU is worse than Canada to deal with since it is a more complex entity.
     
  17. Brian H

    Brian H Banned

    Joined:
    May 11, 2008
    Messages:
    898
    I don't think the deposits are in escrow. Refunds are paid out of cash on hand.
     
  18. v12 to 12v

    v12 to 12v Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2012
    Messages:
    1,063
    Washington State is the only state that requires deposits to be held in escrow. It is even mentioned in the financial reports.
     
  19. linaser

    linaser Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2011
    Messages:
    114
    #19 linaser, Nov 5, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
    So Elon is saying essentially, that they're stalling European deliveries, because it's less complicated to manufacture cars for the U.S. market.

    I had somehow hoped, that Tesla would be going the extra mile for long time Signature reservation holders in Europe.

    As it seems, there are no major technical or administrative reasons, why they couldn't start manufacturing for the European market very soon.

    I have to admit, that for me as an early Sig Reservation holder (#14) in Europe, this is kind of disappointing.
     
  20. Andvib

    Andvib Member

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    24
    Location:
    Norway
    long time lurker chiming in..

    linaser - I think you are right, and I agree that it is kind of disappointing for us Europeans. On the other hand, they might start in Europe with essentially a "version 1.5" or similar. More stable and more functions software. Better supporting sports seats were indicated in the recent European test drives. I think they will need to design and include headlight washers too, as I think they are mandatory in the EU if you have xenon headlights (not sure). AWD is a given at some point but maybe not first half of 2013?
     

Share This Page