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Is Tesla viable for very high mileage delivery driver?

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
6,933
3,686
Suffolk, UK
A courier who comes here quite often always admires the Tesla, would like EV, but thinks he couldn't afford it

He does about 70,000 miles a year, and 300 miles would be a typical max miles day. All his parcels are small, so although his current is a small van an M3 would be OK for "Cargo"

I did my usual "10,000 miles a year saves £100 a month on Petrol" and thought £700 a month saved on petrol, and spend on finance, would solve it easily - in fact it would probably pay for a Ferrari!

Except that he said you can't get "Hand it back at the end" finance deals on cars that do that sort of mileage ...

And then there would need to be some allowance for the road-charging on days when he is out-of-range - to allow for that cost.

His overnight electricity tariff couldn't be the cheapest Octopus as that is only 4 hours - even E7 isn't going to do it - 300 miles would need closer to 12 hours charging - and of course he would have to arrive home on fumes, and charge to 100%, for a 300 mile day - but some charging would be Peak tariff - so need to allow for that.

Also the time, as well as cost, for charging when out-and-about

As I understand it he is paid per mile (own vehicle), and that includes some trips into London etc., so in theory if he can reduce his fuel bill (and congestion charge) he could spend that on Finance - and maybe save some money too.

And then he talked about the difference between what he is paid per mile, and claiming back any additional tax. His view was that saving per-mile cost was very beneficial - I suppose currently he has to (in effect) wait for his tax rebate to realise that, whereas if he changed to EV his fuel cost would plummet, but he would still be paid same per mile rate - but he would have higher monthly finance cost.

What about warranty? If he keeps the car 3 years, 200K miles, how would he be placed for that?

And 2nd value? (compared to his little knackered van!!)

When I chatted it through with him it looked a lot more difficult to sort out than someone doing more modest mileage ...
 

UkNorthampton

TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
Jun 15, 2019
1,231
9,794
Northampton, England
compared to his little knackered van Model S/X withOUT free supercharging? [ Supercharging shouldn't be used for commercial purposes according to Any private hire / taxi drivers out there? Model S or 3? ]

I think worth looking into how taxi/executive car hire firms work it out.

70,000 miles on a van is big. Others I've known in similar positions were forced to swap every 30,000 miles - not sure if employers' policies or lease agreements. Probably both.

I don't know how much of the above is correct, but maybe some pointers for research.
 
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For deliveries, I imagine a Model Y would be a better choice because of it's hatchback design and larger cargo capacity.

With petrol prices so high, the fuel savings could be significant.

EVs tend to have far lower maintenance costs as well.

With such high mileage, a lease would not work.

Best if he has a place to charge up at home overnight. Could use a convenient Supercharger if he needs a "splash" during the day.

Driving a Tesla would be heaven compared to all day in a clapped out van.
 

Rooster6655

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,916
750
UK
A quick estimate although I might have missed something obvious, if you are able to get 45p (First 10k) then 25p per mile from an employer for example if its your car vs a company car then that's going to amount to £4.5k + £15k =£19.5k for fuel reimbursement

Energy requirements
70kWh for full charge per day
Octopus 4hr tariff
4hours = 28kWh (Off Peak) 7.5p*28 = £2.10
6 hours = 42kWh (Peak) 30p*42 = £12.60
=
£14.70 per day*260 (5 day week)
£3822 total cost per year

Reimbursement for fuel
EV
£19500
-£3822 cost electric
=£15678 excess per year
=£1306 per month
=£47034 over 3 years

I don't have a clue about van milage costs but with the current pricing I think 25p per mile might not be out of the question, resulting in a cost of 17.5k per year

Van
£19500
-£17500 cost fuel
-£500 servicing
£1.5k per year
£4.5k 3 years excess

I think purchasing out right and running it to 200k would be the easiest option however you would have to take into consideration potential out of warranty costs and the 100k milage limit for the battery warranty, might be worth considering changing every year in that case.

There are of course many aspects to consider but I think an EV would be a viable option long term and even better if the resale value is good at the end.
 
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EVs tend to have far lower maintenance costs as well.

Driving a Tesla would be heaven compared to all day in a clapped out van.
EVs tend to have virtually ZERO maintenance. I've owned two Teslas that I sold with over 100,000 miles on them, which never received ANY maintenance. I mean, where you gonna put the oil?? Much less the filter. Other maintenance is minimal to non-existent. Of course, there'll be tires and windshield wipers, but nothing compared to a gas car. And he's only putting on about 300-400 miles a day, so if he can combine a fifteen minute top-up with lunch, that would work well.

I don't see much of a comparison.
 

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
6,933
3,686
Suffolk, UK
A quick estimate

Thanks, that's handy.

I wonder how best E7 rate would compare (not something I've been monitoring)

4hours = 28kWh (Off Peak) 7.5p*28 = £2.10
6 hours = 42kWh (Peak) 30p*42 = £12.60
=
£14.70 per day*260 (5 day week)

Let's assume 7 hours is enough (and whatever is over that will be "Peak" via both routes)

Octopus basis:

4hours = 28kWh (Off Peak) 7.5p*28 = £2.10
3 hours = 21kWh (Peak) 30p*21 = £6.30

That is £8.40

So the E7 rate would need to be better than £8.40 :

£8.40 over 7 hours x 7kW - I make that £0.17p / unit. Dunno if E7 Off Peak is that low?

EV = £47K over 3 years
Van = £4.5k over 3 years

So basically he has to buy the Tesla for £47K ... taking into account the 2nd hand residuals

£55K to buy, sell for what? 25%? that would be £13,750

So £47K fuel saving, and £13,750 2nd hand sale, that would be £60,750 Credit and £55K Debit ... I would have thought that was promising :)

Or a van (in a form that is good for 200K miles :) ) with a differential budget of £4.5K - good luck with that!

general warranty is up to 50,000 miles

Is there any extended warranty that would take one to 200K miles? (Otherwise it might be the "I can't afford NOT to have a New Tesla Every Year" :) )

Where a vehicle is needed for your livelihood it's important to have a backup plan for if/when the vehicle is off the road.

he must have that with his clapped-out van now ... maybe that is a risk that you would insure against - "Hire car in the event of vehicle-off-road" ?
 
A courier who comes here quite often always admires the Tesla, would like EV, but thinks he couldn't afford it

He does about 70,000 miles a year, and 300 miles would be a typical max miles day. All his parcels are small, so although his current is a small van an M3 would be OK for "Cargo"

I did my usual "10,000 miles a year saves £100 a month on Petrol" and thought £700 a month saved on petrol, and spend on finance, would solve it easily - in fact it would probably pay for a Ferrari!

Except that he said you can't get "Hand it back at the end" finance deals on cars that do that sort of mileage ...

And then there would need to be some allowance for the road-charging on days when he is out-of-range - to allow for that cost.

His overnight electricity tariff couldn't be the cheapest Octopus as that is only 4 hours - even E7 isn't going to do it - 300 miles would need closer to 12 hours charging - and of course he would have to arrive home on fumes, and charge to 100%, for a 300 mile day - but some charging would be Peak tariff - so need to allow for that.

Also the time, as well as cost, for charging when out-and-about

As I understand it he is paid per mile (own vehicle), and that includes some trips into London etc., so in theory if he can reduce his fuel bill (and congestion charge) he could spend that on Finance - and maybe save some money too.

And then he talked about the difference between what he is paid per mile, and claiming back any additional tax. His view was that saving per-mile cost was very beneficial - I suppose currently he has to (in effect) wait for his tax rebate to realise that, whereas if he changed to EV his fuel cost would plummet, but he would still be paid same per mile rate - but he would have higher monthly finance cost.

What about warranty? If he keeps the car 3 years, 200K miles, how would he be placed for that?

And 2nd value? (compared to his little knackered van!!)

When I chatted it through with him it looked a lot more difficult to sort out than someone doing more modest mileage ...
Is this ‘I want a Tesla’ syndrome rather than having any real gains. I can see the environmental side of things if he is choosing ev but any financial gains will never materialise because of the initial costs and possible high electric costs.
 
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WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
6,933
3,686
Suffolk, UK
Is this ‘I want a Tesla’ syndrome rather than having any real gains.

Nope, definitely not. He reckons that the per-mile he is being paid isn't reflecting what he is paying for fuel ... so he's expecting to be squeezed / out of pocket

He'd be happy with any EV (for per mile cost), my view is that there are very few that will get close to 300 miles a day, and of those the Tesla charging network would be crucial to facilitate that

Not sure he cares too much about environment (I'm sure he does, but he expressed an opinion that there would be other fuel sources in future ... personally, for cars, I disagree but I chose not to explore that with him)

I'm open to other EV Brand suggestions

any financial gains will never materialise because of the initial costs and possible high electric costs.

My experience has been a good trade in value (I did 95K miles over 3.5 years and got a 50% trade in - that's not the same as 200K miles of course ...)

And much cheaper fuel cost (but need a good Off Peak rate in order to achieve that)
 
Remember if he can get onto intelligent octopus there is the minimum 6h overnight plus extra slots.

I always have octopus app set to 100% charge by 4am and have seen me get slots before 5pm (even though it should only work after 5) and solid charge at cheap rate from 8:30 to 4am. If the battery is really low he could set this to charge by 5:30.

I control the actual charge limit in then car. That way he can pretty much always get 7.5p rate.
 

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
6,933
3,686
Suffolk, UK
I'm amazed that going EV is not an easy money choice for the courier given the price of fossil fuel in the UK.

I think the issues are:

Getting finance - the types of finance we have here for specific mileage (per year), and then a price per mile for "over" when you hand it back, aren't offered for very high mileage drivers.

Of course Bank Loan or similar is possible, but then you have to have enough "Credit" to borrow £60K - instead of a £few for a van

Warranty - if the van breaks then plenty of spare parts available, and lots of small repair garages - so getting it fixed is easy, and probably not expensive. And worst case "just get another one" would not be very expensive.

With Tesla all the bits are expensive, and although there are plenty of owners who have done high miles / longer term owners, when a problem arises it is a) expensive and b) car off road for long time (and c) have to get the car to a Tesla location, which is unlikely to be local)

For someone used to paying a £few for a Van then stepping up to the expenditure of a "Luxury EV" is a Big Thing. I'd do it in a heartbeat, but of course I can afford to roll-the-dice on the things that might go wrong, and I'm not driving for a living :) although when I had the first Model-S I was doing 30K miles a year (which is huge for UK ... average mileage is less than 10K) and that was perfectly fine, and back then the Supercharger network had far fewer locations - and I had out-of-range journeys (visit client etc.) twice a month.

In terms of cost of fuel there is significant different to USA. I've taken £1 = US$1.25

Petrol has risen here from around £1.50 / Litre to £1.90. One US Gallon = 3.78 Litres, so that's £7.18 / US Gallon - US$ 8.98. Typical cars are around 6 - 12 miles / Litre. So around £0.15 per mile US$0.1875

Electricity is around £0.30 per kWh Peak, should average 3 miles / kWh (including phantom drain etc.). There are Off Peak rates as low as £0.075 (US$0.03 / mile) for a period of 4 hours overnight (not long enough to re-charge 300 miles). Public rapid charging is around £0.50 (US$0.20 / mile)

My understanding is that the price difference between "Gas" and Electricity in USA is much narrower - so there is an even bigger incentive to move to EV here. We also have "Congestion Charge" in London (£15 a day, if you drive into London), which is exempt for EVs ... and so on.

Public Rapid-charging is absolutely diabolical. Stalls broken, majority 50kW max, and so on. By comparison Tesla Supercharger "just works", and some other brands are opening up ... but not many locations, yet, and typically only have 4 stalls per site, so risk of all-occupied, and some of the cars there will be slow chargers so blocking stall for long time. Flip side, Tesla has opened some Supercharger sites to all-brands and no doubt will open all the rest "shortly".

As a delivery driver, getting held up for charging because "All stalls full" would be terrible for being on-time at appointments, so that too would be a factor.
 

init6

Active Member
Oct 16, 2020
1,811
1,139
Scotland
Issues to be aware of ... general warranty is up to 50,000 miles.
Where a vehicle is needed for your livelihood it's important to have a backup plan for if/when the vehicle is off the road.
^This. The forum is awash with stories of cars being off the road for weeks at a time. Sure, you usually get a loaner but it might not be a Y it could be a 5 year old S. You'll have to budget for a hire van rather than hope Tesla can give you a suitable replacement.
 
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Rooster6655

Active Member
May 3, 2019
1,916
750
UK
The cost of insurance would be worth taking into account too? Can't imagine that insuring a Tesla for 70k/year miles with business use would come out very pocket-friendly.
Yes I would be interested to see the price ranges for these types of policies, I think some main insurers would insure for commercial purposes but the specialist ones will likely be the best option. In this van drivers situation, the main difference is going to be the value of the vehicle so will be interesting to here the difference in pricing, I suspect it will be a workable amount

^This. The forum is awash with stories of cars being off the road for weeks at a time. Sure, you usually get a loaner but it might not be a Y it could be a 5 year old S. You'll have to budget for a hire van rather than hope Tesla can give you a suitable replacement.
Yes and I am not sure about their insurance policy that is provided, I am sure they limited things to 100 miles a day at one point, also if its an urgent situation they may only be able to provide Uber credits which would not work in this scenario!
 

WannabeOwner

Well-Known Member
Nov 2, 2015
6,933
3,686
Suffolk, UK
What is the fossil fuel consumption of the van held up as the alternative ?

Around here it would be in the neighborhood of 6 miles per liter, so over 30p per mile

He's got a small van (I would image the view from USA would be "A very small van" :) ).

I'll check what make it is next time he is here. That said, once he's put 100K miles on it ... and heading for 200K miles ... I wonder how efficient it then is, and how close the MPG is to "spec"

In this van drivers situation, the main difference is going to be the value of the vehicle so will be interesting to here the difference in pricing, I suspect it will be a workable amount

I expect, as a commercial driver, he's probably very safe ... but 70K miles a year is going to increase the risk of "having someone else's accident"
 

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