Is Tesla Wallbox worth it?

[TimothyHW3]

In the following video I am comparing the heat loss while charging at around 3kW to charging at 11kW.

I calculate that in Europe even at 13A 230V will give you only 10% disadvantage over 11kW. In the US at 7kW 14-50 NEMA is going to be even less of a heat loss difference to a Tesla wallbox.

So a (Tesla) Wallbox 11kW doesn't make any sense regardless of geographical locaiton.

My advices based on both videos:
1) In USA - Nema 14-50 is the best choice as it is cheaper and the difference of about 4kW is negligible.

2) In Europe you can go by with Schuko (3kW) and for most countries you will need to charge your car for 200,000-300,000km at home alone (if you supercharge, that number increases even further) before a wallbox pays for itself. If you get a Blue 3.7kW adapter, the heat loss is even less.

Either way - you will be better off to get the extra cash and install a few extra solar panels on your roof.

 

[Kevy Baby]

You might get better feedback in the Tesla Energy forum.

 

[Tessaract]

In the following video I am comparing the heat loss while charging at around 3kW to charging at 11kW.

I calculate that in Europe even at 13A 230V will give you only 10% disadvantage over 11kW. In the US at 7kW 14-50 NEMA is going to be even less of a heat loss difference to a Tesla wallbox.

So a (Tesla) Wallbox 11kW doesn't make any sense regardless of geographical locaiton.

My advices based on both videos:
1) In USA - Nema 14-50 is the best choice as it is cheaper and the difference of about 4kW is negligible.

2) In Europe you can go by with Schuko (3kW) and for most countries you will need to charge your car for 200,000-300,000km at home alone (if you supercharge, that number increases even further) before a wallbox pays for itself. If you get a Blue 3.7kW adapter, the heat loss is even less.

Either way - you will be better off to get the extra cash and install a few extra solar panels on your roof.

I think your comparison is invalid. Charging at a lower power requires more time, and the car's phantom energy consumption (assuming phantom power is a constant power) will be larger because of that. Nothing to do with the wallbox itself. Just simple time to charge at different charging powers. So unless you compared the "heat" over the same period of time in each case, your numbers will be inaccurate.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I think your comparison is invalid. Charging at a lower power requires more time, and the car's phantom energy consumption (assuming phantom power is a constant power) will be larger because of that. Nothing to do with the wallbox itself. Just simple time to charge at different charging powers.

If you actually scroll around the last video and the videos before that you will see that A) My vampire drain is non existant (it is at about 300Wh over 24 hours), because I turn off all the things that use battery and I don't give any access to 3rd party apps to wake up the car.
B) I have taken the 300 Wh into consideration into the calculation, but that is barely a rounding error, since the difference was about 10 hours, which is about 100Wh difference (A 100Wh difference over 48kWh is a 0.1 error)

So yes, the comparison is very valid and scientific.

Also, the fact that charging slower over 3/3.7kW will amount to more heat loss is really not news - Just meassured what the difference at this particular location was. Of course in your house the numbers will vary slightly (from 8-9% or 17% to 18% for example), but the difference between the two will be roughly the same.

 

[TimothyHW3]

You might get better feedback in the Tesla Energy forum.

I don't see how that sub is more appropriate. They are talking about Powerwalls over there - we are talking about Wallboxes/Car Chargers and Charging cables + heat loss. This is very car specific.

 

[hugh_jassol]

They may have confused “wallbox” (EVSE or Tesla High Power Wall Connector) for “powerwall” (the eagerly storage device)

 

[joebruin77]

I agree that the 14-50 is the best value. However, there are 3 factors to consider:

1) The Wall Connector is more rugged and better for outdoor installations if the user charges outside and is exposed to the elements.

2) Many power utilities offer a rebate for the wall connector, but not for a 14-50 plug. In my case, my local power company paid me $500 for my wall connector but zero for a 14--50.

3) If there are times when you need to charge as fast as possible, the wall connector does offer a slight edge. Of course, this won't be an issue if you charge overnight. But if you have driven all day and are only home for an hour or so, the wall connector will give you a few more miles of charge than a 14-50.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Not sure about 1 and 2 as I am in Europe, but I think those connectors can be used outside? At least the blue CEE camping ones over here can.

As for speed, the difference is very small in the US. 3kW difference in an hour is 3kWh more into the battery, which in turn is around 5-10 more miles added depending on consumption. This will barely make any difference. Even in Europe with 3.7kW vs 11kW I don't see a scenario where I would need that since if I need more range than the 3.7kW I get over night it I can top up the rest in under 10-15 minutes at a HPC.

 

[joebruin77]

Not sure about 1 and 2 as I am in Europe, but I think those connectors can be used outside? At least the blue CEE camping ones over here can.

The 14-50 outlets can be used outside. Most building codes require them to be safe for outside use. But the issue is that the Tesla moble charger that you are plugging into the 14-50 outlet is not as weather and water resistant as the Wall Connector.

 

[TimothyHW3]

The 14-50 outlets can be used outside. Most building codes require them to be safe for outside use. But the issue is that the Tesla moble charger that you are plugging into the 14-50 outlet is not as weather and water resistant as the Wall Connector.

It is. Otherwise they wouldn't be selling it. I have used it very often in rain and snow for more than 17 hours.

 

[jjrandorin]

It is. Otherwise they wouldn't be selling it. I have used it very often in rain and snow for more than 17 hours.

From the tesla mobile connector user manual:

===================================
Warning: Do not use the Mobile Connector when either you, the vehicle or the Mobile Connector is exposed to severe rain, snow, electrical storm or other inclement weather.

https://www.tesla.com/sites/default...bile_connector_owners_manual_32_amp_en_US.pdf
===================================

The wall connector is rated for outdoor use. As the other poster said, the mobile connector (the one that comes with the car) is not as weather resistant as the wall connector. Your other points aside, your statement that they are the same in this regard is false. at least as far as the company that makes the product says.

 

[dmurphy]

The wall connector is rated for outdoor use. As the other poster said, the mobile connector (the one that comes with the car) is not as weather resistant as the wall connector. Your other points aside, your statement that they are the same in this regard is false. at least as far as the company that makes the product says.

Thank you. This is entirely the reason I installed a Wall Connector - we do have bad weather occasionally, so I wanted the watertight connector outdoors. I also think it makes a much "cleaner" installation for my needs. It will also work better for me if/when I install a second charging station, as I can take advantage of the power sharing features on a single circuit.

There absolutely *are* valid reasons to install a Wall Connector.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I think there might be a difference between our understanding of wall connector in europe and the different plugs in the US.

There are indeed valid reasons for the installation of a wall connector (Wallbox 11kW), but I just wanted to make the point that cost saving is not one of them.

 

[user212_nr]

The video is very technical, which will limit your audience to such people. However for technical people, it is more interesting in written format.

Here is a good video that I watched where I first learned that the HPWC was not necessary for Tesla. Ignore the incorrect title (14-50 is intended).

He does a good job starting at the beginning, filling in context, taking his time, showing his own personality rather than status screens.

You take all the useful technical data and archive it in a blog or forum post, and only tell people what they need to know. The video I watched also does a good job presenting the few reasons why you would want a HPWC.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Aha, ok. Well, let's say I have higher standards for a video
I managed to skip to his "reasons" though: First one was status and the second one was looks... Third one was you want to keep the adapter in your car(you still can).
Not sure which one of those qualifies as "good reason to buy the adapter".

 

[kkillebrew]

According to TeslaFi my charges with the wall charger are more efficient than with the mobile charger or ChargePoint. Not sure how it is calculated. Also, my wall charger runs cool to the touch as does the cable to the car, so I am not sure what you are talking about here.

 

[woodguyatl]

I think there might be a difference between our understanding of wall connector in europe and the different plugs in the US.

There are indeed valid reasons for the installation of a wall connector (Wallbox 11kW), but I just wanted to make the point that cost saving is not one of them.

Tesla specifically says that the charger that comes with car should not be used in Ibadan weather.
“Warning: Do not use the Mobile Connector when either you, the vehicle or the Mobile Connector is exposed to severe rain, snow, electrical storm or other inclement weather.”

 

[TimothyHW3]

According to TeslaFi my charges with the wall charger are more efficient than with the mobile charger or ChargePoint. Not sure how it is calculated. Also, my wall charger runs cool to the touch as does the cable to the car, so I am not sure what you are talking about here.

It is explained in the video, difference in losses between different kW speeds - the "heat loss" is not something that you will feel to the touch... But anyways, I think we can leave it at that. I guess some folks will understand what is being said in the video.

Also, the video was made in Europe so you guys might not be familiar with some of the standards there.

 

[TimothyHW3]

Tesla specifically says that the charger that comes with car should not be used in Ibadan weather.
“Warning: Do not use the Mobile Connector when either you, the vehicle or the Mobile Connector is exposed to severe rain, snow, electrical storm or other inclement weather.”

This was already mentioned - you can have your wall connector shielded from the elements if you want. But anyways,i is obvious why that text is there - warranty and liability. Which in the US is a big issue...