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Is the 85D worth the additional $10k over the 70D?
- Thread starter chriSharek
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- 70d cost Model S Performance Range
Would love to hear from 70D and 85D owners here. I'm ordering in 10 days and I think I'm willing to give up the SAS for the 85D (to stay within my wife's price range).
If it was only the additional performance for $10k - I'd say it wasn't worth it.
If it was only the additional range for $10k - I'd say it wasn't worth it.
But, it's BOTH performance and range. Love to hear your thoughts.
For me... 85D all the way.
a) Range is king. You'll never regret having it, but at some point will likely regret not having it. Here's a scenario that I had never considered until I owned one: You're planning a long weekend trip to visit the inlaws. So, you work all day and burn 1/3 of the battery running around. And now instead of just leaving at the end of the day you have to go home and charge up first. The wife is irritated by this. Three years down the road she wants to get rid of the Tesla for an ICE, rather than agreeing to upgrade to the 975 HP P115D+
b) I suspect that you'll be able to resell the 85D for a premium over the 70D, not too far different from the premium that you paid. So you have little financial loss over the period of your ownership.
c) When you buy one of these you inevitably become an ambassador for the brand. When you give people a demo ride, as you inevitably will, you want them to salivate while recounting the experience to others. The extra horses help a lot!
Range is King. Range is King. Range is King. More HP doesn't suck. Range is King.
That was my thought process as I ordered right before the 70D was announced, I could have changed to the 70D but....RANGE IS KING. It may also be the difference between being passed on the way to vegas by a Golf TDI (as you eeeck out the energy savings tootling along at 55 MPH in your 70D), and PASSING Golf TDIs at 85 MPH. IF your driving a TESLA, you should be doing the passing.... Elon would expect it.
p.s. I don't hate Golf TDIs.
That was my thought process as I ordered right before the 70D was announced, I could have changed to the 70D but....RANGE IS KING. It may also be the difference between being passed on the way to vegas by a Golf TDI (as you eeeck out the energy savings tootling along at 55 MPH in your 70D), and PASSING Golf TDIs at 85 MPH. IF your driving a TESLA, you should be doing the passing.... Elon would expect it.
p.s. I don't hate Golf TDIs.
Cyclone
Cyclonic Member ((.oO))
To those who say "Range is King". I get that. Just, to me, 20-25 miles of range wasn't worth $25k. No worries if it was to you. Part of that could be performance + (a small increase in) range + (potentially) faster supercharger charge ups (the 60s were definitely much slower than the 85s) together make the $10k worthwhile. If the 60 was replaced with the 60D with the same price as a 60 and the battery warranty went to unlimited miles, I would still get the 85/85D. That range difference is meaningful to me, Supercharger enablement is a must for me, and faster Supercharging speeds are worth the $10k difference.
As I've said before though - you can't make a wrong choice as long as your selection starts with the five letters T-E-S-L-A!
As I've said before though - you can't make a wrong choice as long as your selection starts with the five letters T-E-S-L-A!
ahurst
Member
I see it like this--
There is no 70 or 85, there is just the Model SD.
It gets 240 range and 5.2 0-60.
There is an option you can click on the order page just above AutoPilot called "Enhanced"
The Enhanced option gives you 265 range and 4.4 0-60. It costs $10,000.
Would I pay $10k for that option? Right now, I don't know. $5k, yes I would.
(Assuming the faster SC time is a theory for now)
There is no 70 or 85, there is just the Model SD.
It gets 240 range and 5.2 0-60.
There is an option you can click on the order page just above AutoPilot called "Enhanced"
The Enhanced option gives you 265 range and 4.4 0-60. It costs $10,000.
Would I pay $10k for that option? Right now, I don't know. $5k, yes I would.
(Assuming the faster SC time is a theory for now)
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Sandpiper, I love your thoughts in particular (but everyone's were helpful)!
This is a great point. I'm sold. 85D without the air suspension (coils) is what we will order. The whole idea of convenience will sell it to the wife.
After all, RANGE APPEARS TO BE KING!
10 days to order and then the real wait begins . ..
This is a great point. I'm sold. 85D without the air suspension (coils) is what we will order. The whole idea of convenience will sell it to the wife.
After all, RANGE APPEARS TO BE KING!
10 days to order and then the real wait begins . ..
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AMPd
Well-Known Member
"Honey, unfortunately the car does Not have enough range to visit your parents... Shucks and I was so looking forward to seeing them"
*walks away with a grin*
You sir just sold lots of males on the 70D!
Even if you don't need the extra range generally, on a road trip, you might regret the 70D. If you can make it to the next SC at 80% SoC on the 85D, you'll need 97% on the 70D... and that will add a non-trivial amount of charge time (the SC will taper off and take a while for those last 17%) at every stop even though technically you can make it in both models.
My guess is that with the price difference when selling you'll likely only cost $5k in the end. All else being equal, I bet 85D sells for $5k over 70D down the road.
I also agree - range is king.
18k miles in 8 months with S85. Never a range issue but have cut it close. Glad I've had the range.
Based on the fact that a 10 KWh Power Wall is $3,500 I'd say the extra 15 KWh would be worth right around $5,000. It's Tesla's own battery math. It just goes to show how the current pricing for the 70D and the 85D does not make sense and will likely be rectified to push people to get the 85D. Even now I'd pay $10K more for the faster car with slightly greater range but they are likely missing out many who decide to save the money and get a 70D and it's not in Tesla's financial interest to push people towards a lower cost car.
Powerwall uses different cells so that's not an Apples to Apples comparison. Also, there are more differences between 70d and 80d than just a different battery. We don't know what their margin is on a 70d vs an 85d either.
P.s. Elon said the powerwall is not selling at a profit currently. When GF comes online it is profitable.
Fair enough but adding individual battery cells to an existing enclosure in a Model S should be less expensive. A Power Wall has a lot of overhead components that are already addressed for the most part when you look at a Model S Battery pack (temperature management for example is already built in). I think overall the cost aspects are more or less in line.
brucet999
Active Member
Maybe they want 70D to pull sales from 85 variants. If battery production is still a limiting factor and the Gigafactory is still years away from production, they can sell 100 70Ds using the same number of battery cells as only 82 of the 85 variants. That means more operating profits at a time when they need to build cash flow and more per-unit energy credits from the government.
Doesn't make sense as the markup for the 85 is more. At the end of the day what they want is more money. With the 85D they are basically selling 10KWh battery capacity that they are charging $3,500 in the format of a Power Wall unit and charging $10,000 for it.
Also if they are short on batteries, why release a new product that's an actual battery?
It also is almost a second faster 0-60. How much do you usually pay for that alone on an ICE?
I've got a weekly commute that's ~300mi roundtrip so there really wasn't any choice, also the 70D wasn't announced. I still would have stuck with the 85D though.
That said the extra power that came over the OTA was a nice to have.
Has anyone done a comparison on supercharging time with the 70D yet? Smaller battery means you'll be spending more of time outside the 120kW curve.
That said the extra power that came over the OTA was a nice to have.
Has anyone done a comparison on supercharging time with the 70D yet? Smaller battery means you'll be spending more of time outside the 120kW curve.
Khatsalano
Member
Range is king when under 300 miles at this stage of EV evolution. The price difference is not large, but when taken into perspective that this is an expensive car purchase, no matter how you slice it, I want to be able to use my expensive car for all missions, without anxiety, period. The more power is cool too.
I got one of the first S85D's to roll off the line in week 1 back in February. The S70D was not available during my ordering window. I might have been convinced with an S70D if it were available at the time, but after driving 9,000 miles in California, covering Bakersfield to Eureka (I travel a lot for work), there is no way I would give up the S85D's range. The extra range has made some trips like Corning SC to Eureka a zero anxiety experience on Highway 36.
If you are shopping for value though, the S70D is definitely where the value is. The S85D is close behind, with the P85D a distant third. Then again, not all buyers care about value as much in this segment. Otherwise, we'd be rolling in Corollas.
We could use an S90D with efficiency gains though, for a 300 RM car. That would be sweet.
- K
I got one of the first S85D's to roll off the line in week 1 back in February. The S70D was not available during my ordering window. I might have been convinced with an S70D if it were available at the time, but after driving 9,000 miles in California, covering Bakersfield to Eureka (I travel a lot for work), there is no way I would give up the S85D's range. The extra range has made some trips like Corning SC to Eureka a zero anxiety experience on Highway 36.
If you are shopping for value though, the S70D is definitely where the value is. The S85D is close behind, with the P85D a distant third. Then again, not all buyers care about value as much in this segment. Otherwise, we'd be rolling in Corollas.
We could use an S90D with efficiency gains though, for a 300 RM car. That would be sweet.
- K
As an 85 owner, I have to admit that the 70D looks like a compelling value, especially since the 240 mile range is pretty close to the 85D's 270 mile range.
Another thing to consider is what happens if (when?) Tesla comes out with a ~100D, possibly in support of the Model X? It seems like it would devalue existing 60's, 70's more than the 85's. I don't think this in itself makes the 85D worth $10K more than a 70D, but it is something that could happen in the next few years.
Another thing to consider is what happens if (when?) Tesla comes out with a ~100D, possibly in support of the Model X? It seems like it would devalue existing 60's, 70's more than the 85's. I don't think this in itself makes the 85D worth $10K more than a 70D, but it is something that could happen in the next few years.
Sandpiper, I love your thoughts in particular (but everyone's were helpful)!
This is a great point. I'm sold. 85D without the air suspension (coils) is what we will order. The whole idea of convenience will sell it to the wife.
After all, RANGE APPEARS TO BE KING!
10 days to order and then the real wait begins . ..
Glad I helped! Welcome to the club. You'll love the car.
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Yep. Same here. And I'd pay another 20k for another 30kwh beyond that.
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