which also proves the point that fuel costs are much larger than the energy cost to manufacture the car (they certainly wouldn't spend more on energy, not to mention all the other costs, than the price of the car itself!)
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which also proves the point that fuel costs are much larger than the energy cost to manufacture the car (they certainly wouldn't spend more on energy, not to mention all the other costs, than the price of the car itself!)
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
I noticed that too, but didn't really point it out. There's two possible interpretations of the question:
Is the $15k premium for the Performance to go from 0-60 of 5.6 to 4.4 a bargain?
Is the $85k price of the Performance S a bargain?
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
@Daniel, the question relates purely to the Performance S. Not the production or sig (non performance). When you compare the performance S to other cars that offer similar performance, does it seem like a value. We can certain extend the question to other versions of the Model S, but I think the value may drop when you compare a 40 kWh Model S to an Altima, Accord or Camry, Fusion or Malibu. That is, unless you factor in things that automatically wipe other vehicles out of the running, such as environmental impact and "fuel" costs.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
I still say the answer is yes. Why? Because inherently choosing the performance means that you are holding the extra power as a goal for the vehicle and therefore other vehicles that do not offer that power are not in the same class. Your question is the same as asking if the AMG version or BMW M version is a bargain compared to the E350, E55, 528i, 535i, or 550i.
Norbert
TSLA will win
That's more like saying you don't have an opinion on the matter (meaning, in this case, you wouldn't vote). The question relates more to the value offered vs. its cost, not whether the value is of use for you personally. Let's say the Performance version would have a slightly higher energy consumption, even when driven at the same speed/style, so that you wouldn't want it even if it was the same price. But you could still acknowledge that it would be a steel if it came at the same price, for someone who is interested in the value it offers.
"Value" is still subjective. For some people the added performance has great value. For others, it has little value. And since the Model S is unique, and probably will be for some time to come, there's really nothing to compare it to. The OP's question is legitimate, but it's asking for an opinion. The value of the added performance depends on what matters to you. For me, the Perf is not a steal. But some folks want the most performance they can get, and consider the price difference worth it, not worth it, or worth far more. In the latter case, they'll consider it a steal.
Norbert
TSLA will win
Yes, it has subjective components, but also objective components, such as going from 5.6 sec 0-60 to 4.4 sec. The upgrade price includes some options with known price. So you could compare the complete price to other cars with 4.4 sec and otherwise similar features (except for the electric drive train), or compare it to what it costs to upgrade other cars by such a factor, since for "premium" cars it is quite common to have performance upgrades available as options. But if you don't care about the performance difference, then the question simply doesn't apply to you.
However, if we knew something like "The performance version has a more robust inverter and heavier wiring which should add X (miles or years) to the life of the car", it would be more objective. For me, the 0-60 number, as long at it's "yes" and not "no", is not important. Longer life would be.
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
Again, it still only an question that applies to someone in the market for that level of performance. You are really only in the market if you actually CARE about that number and were it not for the Model S, would have gone for the performance variant of some other make. People who chose the Roadster sport did not shell out the cash because they thought it might last longer. They wanted the extra thrill of 3.7 vs 3.9.
With that, I'm not so sure the results of this survey has any meaning whatsoever.
With that, I'm not so sure the results of this survey has any meaning whatsoever.
That's true, unless there is some other aspect of the performance version that would make it appeal to a different group.
That is certainly true.
I'll buy that.
Can you actually tell the difference? The one I test drove was a sport. The one I bought is not. I've never driven either in Performance mode, but in Standard mode I don't think I could tell the difference.
'Course, the car I drove before the Roadster had a top speed on level ground of 35 mph and took half a minute to reach that. :biggrin:
spatterso911
P100DL - Raven
I think that few people can really tell the difference when hammering the throttle on an isolated road (or powering onto a freeway onramp for that matter), but when you are on a track lined up against another vehicle with similar capabilities, that .2 seconds may as well be 30 seconds difference.
Yeah, the Xebra was no stallion, but what it did, it apparently did well.:biggrin:
When I first got my Roadster, I could not "feel" the difference between Standard and Performance mode. After a month I tried it again, and I could tell. I had gotten used to the Standard acceleration.
I had a chance to drive a Sport a while back. I could easily tell the difference between my base Roadster and the Sport. It has more oomph off the line, during the first second of acceleration. After that it feels about the same.
I really doubt I could have told the difference two years ago, before becoming intimately familiar with the base Roadster's acceleration.
One "value" of the Performance that we all benefit from is a halo effect. I was talking to a senior officer of a New England utility, who I spotted driving a plug-in-converted Prius, and I mentioned that I was getting a Model S soon. His immediate reply: whoa, that's the 4.4 second car, right? So, the brand is getting cred (and helping us indirectly), so I benefit without buying.
Agreed - but I also didn't want to keep telling people that there is a "faster" one - so I went for the performance (Signature Performance). Plus my son bought an Infiniti M 56S and it would just be wrong for him to have a faster car
.
smorgasbord
Active Member
2013 Audi S6 is now available. Still about $80K fully loaded (heads-up display, adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance, night vision, air suspension, Bose stereo, carbon fiber interior trim, power sunroof, Nav, 20" 35 aspect wheels, power folding side mirrors, etc.)
And 0-60 is 3.7 seconds. That's Roadster Sport territory.
I made the mistake of test driving one with my wife today.
