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ToddRLockwood
Active Member
If you ever plan to go out of town in your car, this option is a no-brainer. Do you really want to sit at a level 2 charger for 7 hours, vs. 20 minutes at a supercharger? Another way to look at it... That $2,000 is only 25 $80 fill-ups in a gasoline powered car. Most people would spend that much in less than a year fueling their BMW or MB.
Best decision you ever made, second only to deciding to purchase a Model S in the first place. Assuming you live in Denver Metro, here's a day trip you can easily do: Denver to Silverthorne; Siverthorne to Glenwood Springs via Independence Pass and Aspen; Glenwood to Denver (you may not even have to stop at Silverthorne a second time). For free. In the most awesome mountain driving car ever conceived. How cool is that? :biggrin:
And with the brown, you'll have a rare combination.
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Bighorn
Top Supercharger
Pyramid scheme? That's a new one
Why not call it multi-level marketing, Ponzi or Madoffian perhaps.
Glad you came to your senses, especially living at the heart of the supercharger highway. I've already saved over $2000 in gas in my first year.
Why not call it multi-level marketing, Ponzi or Madoffian perhaps. Glad you came to your senses, especially living at the heart of the supercharger highway. I've already saved over $2000 in gas in my first year.
Seems to me if you have no plans to go on long road trips, the Supercharger option is pretty much pointless. If you're using your MS as a fast grocery getter, and all your driving could be accomplished with an 80 mile Leaf, why bother? Invest the $2000, and you could very well come close to break even if you add it after the fact.
And to the "You'll get it back at resale" crowd - show one iota of proof on this one. That's complete unfounded speculation.
And to the "You'll get it back at resale" crowd - show one iota of proof on this one. That's complete unfounded speculation.
You need to calculate also, that if your car does not have supercharging it will be worth at least $2000 less than others when you go to sell it later.
The car will certainly be easier to sell if it has the SC option because without it you are eliminating a whole set of potential buyers. As to the "you can do it with the 80 mile Leaf", well, that works the first year--unless the weather turns bad or the power goes out for a day. The second year, it's a 50 mile Leaf unless you live in a very mild climate.
I doubt it affects resale because people probably don't know to ask about it when buying used. And I do consider it a Ponzi scheme of sorts, albeit one where you know what you're getting so it's not a scam. The Supercharger network is billed as being free - it's not free - it's being paid for ad infinitum by future Tesla supercharger option purchases. If nobody bought a Tesla with that feature from this point forward, they'd shut down the system. Surely the $2,000 paid by the 2013 and 2014 customers has been spent building the immense infrastructure. The maintenance and electricity is being covered by 2015 and 2016 customers. Anyway, it's a fun thought experiment but I'm confident they have enough money in the bank to keep it open for 5+ years even if they stopped selling enough cars.
I've decided, and have informed my wife as such, that we shall endeavour to drive the car as much as possible, as far as possible, as often as possible. I will get my money out of this option, goldarnit (not sure if profane cursing is permitted here). Elon will regret selling it to me at only $2,000. ;-)
I've decided, and have informed my wife as such, that we shall endeavour to drive the car as much as possible, as far as possible, as often as possible. I will get my money out of this option, goldarnit (not sure if profane cursing is permitted here). Elon will regret selling it to me at only $2,000. ;-)
I'd think that would be the first question people would ask because Tesla has promoted Supercharging as one of the main benefits so it's the one that most people who have read enough about the Model S to purchase one have heard of. As far as it's being a scam, well it's no more of a scam then the free service for X years that some cars have. You'd have to be a pretty dumb bunny to not realize that "free" means "included in the purchase price" regardless of what product or service it is you're purchasing.
(LMB spouse)
@eco5280 - I doubt if Elon will regret selling it to you at $2000. The more you drive it, the more you advertise the brand. We've made dozens of 80% Supercharges and more often than not, people stop and ask questions about the car. Elon gets a lot of free marketing this way, and I'm pretty sure he regards the Supercharger network as a marketing expense. Without a conventional media ad campaign, I think he gets pretty good bang for his Supercharger build-out buck.
@eco5280 - I doubt if Elon will regret selling it to you at $2000. The more you drive it, the more you advertise the brand. We've made dozens of 80% Supercharges and more often than not, people stop and ask questions about the car. Elon gets a lot of free marketing this way, and I'm pretty sure he regards the Supercharger network as a marketing expense. Without a conventional media ad campaign, I think he gets pretty good bang for his Supercharger build-out buck.
Bighorn
Top Supercharger
Once you get your car, it will be a given--no forethought or intent required. Used a supercharger yesterday to get a loaf of bread--300 mile round trip
The next step is understanding that on your road trips you will want all of the range possible. The 85D with a range of 295 miles would be awesome! Just tell your kids they need to get a job while they attend college???
I think you missed my point on the Leaf quip (although, re-reading it, I may not have been clear); by "why bother" I meant "why bother with Supercharging", not "why bother buying an S over a Leaf".
Ie, if 100% of a person's driving fits within the 80 miles (or less) per charge offered by other electric cars, they will likely never need Supercharging, so why waste the money?
When it comes time to sell, if not having supercharging is limiting sales or lowering the price, you can add it then (although who knows if the price will hold at $2500). Opportunity cost-wise, you might very well be better off investing $2000 for 3-5 years, then adding Supercharging for $2500. I'd say the odds are pretty good you'd come out ahead (ie, make more than $500 total return).
I was thinking today about trade-in value to Tesla though, if you're trading in TO Tesla, supercharging makes no difference, since they can activate it themselves for no cost when reselling it for more. A good question will be for a 60 being traded in to tesla, will tesla give any value to having paid for SC? (or for early customers, like me who got supercharging for free on their 60 as a credit off the purchase price...)
Whoa. You just blew my mind. Good point.
I still don't think people or dealers are savvy enough to ask whether it has SC or not on a used one (they likely assume it was standard) so it may not affect resale not having it.
It looks like you already made your decision (likely the right one,) but I didn't see anyone articulate my train of thought on this. It isn't the cost/value of the free electricity you should be looking at here: It's the cost/value of the road trips, instead.
If you suddenly need to be somewhere else a few hundred miles away without the superchargers, what will that cost? gasoline, rental car? Keeping an older car around and paying for insurance/repairs? Last minute flights and taxi cabs?
Looked at that way, a one time $2,000 fee is actually a real bargain. It isn't the electricity that's the value of the Superchargers - it's where the electricity can take you.
Walter
If you suddenly need to be somewhere else a few hundred miles away without the superchargers, what will that cost? gasoline, rental car? Keeping an older car around and paying for insurance/repairs? Last minute flights and taxi cabs?
Looked at that way, a one time $2,000 fee is actually a real bargain. It isn't the electricity that's the value of the Superchargers - it's where the electricity can take you.
Walter
I respectfully disagree - I think putting it in those terms makes $2,000 very expensive. Compared to a gasoline vehicle, or a flight, you'd still have to do quite a bit of traveling to get close to $2,000. For the last 15 years my wife and I have done lots of long weekend trips all over the country (far too far to drive from Denver in a weekend) and I'd guesstimate we average about $189 per flight. So that's $378 in travel expenses (2 of us). We'd have to use Supercharging for more than five trips just to break even. And being in Denver, you're driving like 8-12 hours just to get anywhere. It's absurdly desolate around these parts when it comes to road trip traveling. We've rented cars and driven the entirety of both the east and west coasts and marvel in how much you can see and do in a single day of driving. You drive 12 hours from Denver and you're just arriving at Las Vegas. You drive 12 hours from Boston and you've been through New York City, Philadelphia, Washington DC, Richmond VA, and Charlotte NC. Granted we get the pretty views, but it's a sh@! ton of driving to get anywhere. So road trips are a serious commitment in these parts.
$200 tickets are when you know a month in advance - it's much more expensive on short notice, and it wouldn't take many rental cars with gas to build the total. Still, your point is taken - it likely has more value to someone here on the east coast or in California than in the mountain west. To my mind it's a no brainer, but YMMV.
Walter
Vger
Active Member
Just as a point of reference-- Our Model S is not two years old yet. By the time it is (only) two years old, it will have your 50,000-miles-to-breakeven. Two years-- supercharger option paid for-- on your terms! Now the next two years, and the ones after that (for me or the next owner), are totally free fuel.
As for the "scheme", one of the reasons Tesla is financially sound and worth so much is its brilliant and very sober CFO, Deepak Ahuja. I am sure that he would not have let Elon make this "free forever" if he felt the numbers would not add up, in the near term or in the long run.
