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Is the Y/3 similarity a problem, or irrelevant?

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Watching last night I was disappointed when I saw the similarity between the Y and 3, but it took me a while to think through exactly why.

I think the market space for cars is spanned by two sets of dimensions: functional and aesthetic. The functional dimensions are purely objective specs and capabilities together with pricing, while the aesthetic dimensions are subjective - mainly styling but also perceived brand or model attributes where the owner believes they are making a statement by owing that particular make and model of car. Car companies decide to make the significant up-front investments needed to develop and introduce new models in order to expand their market coverage and attract new owners who want a car from the part of the market space that the new model inhabits, thus expending the company’s sales and providing a return on the engineering investment.

Introducing a new model that differs along the functional dimensions is will do this, but so will introducing a new model that differs aesthetically. The classic example is General Motors in its heyday doing “badge engineering” where models from Chevy, Buick, Oldsmobile and Pontiac were all functionally the same car but differentiated aesthetically in terms of both styling and projected brand values. This allowed GM to cover the market and sell more cars than if they just sold the one model from, say, Chevy. Pure badge engineering like this seems no longer to work in today’s competitive world, so the Volkswagen group sells models from Volkswagen and Audi that strongly differ from each other aesthetically, but are also functionally distinct in terms of engineering and specs that differ at least somewhat, even when you compare their offerings in the same functional category. By varying their offerings along BOTH sets dimensions, car companies cover a broader swath of the overall market space.

Tesla’s problem with the Y is that although it is functionally distinct from the 3 and therefore addresses new market space in that way, the 3 and Y are more identical aesthetically than any other pair of sedan and CUV I have ever seen. They are so aesthetically undifferentiated that I think you would need to look pretty hard to know whether the Tesla heading toward you in the opposite lane was one or the other. Perhaps this won’t be as true when seeing the cars in person, but the Y and 3 look less distinct to me than the pre and post-facelift Model S once they changed the nose, or for that matter the pre and post-facelift versions of any other car from any other manufacturer, even though those would be versions of the very same model car. Who would strive to be the first on their block to own a Y when nobody could tell they were.

The point is that by not even changing the appearance of the headlights, or the look of some element of the interiors, Tesla is completely forgoing the aesthetic dimensions of product differentiation, reducing its coverage of the overall market space relative to what it could have been. I believe this means that sales of the Y and 3 together will be less (I’m not sure by how much) than they otherwise could have been.

Taken in isolation, the Y looks to be an absolutely great car, both functionally and aesthetically: probably the car that Tesla should have introduced instead of the 3 since it covers a bigger segment of the market functionally (CUVs instead of sedans). Thus I don’t expect it will be sales of the Y that suffer. However once the Y is available, why would the aesthetically undifferentiated 3 continue to sell in the long run? People who want cheap would only save $2k by buying the 3. Only a very few people who either care about the slightly sleeker lower lines of the 3 (I am one of those) or the slightly better handling of the 3 on the track (I am also one of those) would choose to buy the 3. By being so aesthetically similar to the 3, the Y becomes the 3’s closest competitor by far and will cannibalize its sales, probably beginning immediately. It’s analogous to showing off a car model’s redesigned successor a year and a half before it’s available for sale. In fact I suspect Elon plans to ship the Y in volume earlier than the late ‘20/’21 timeframe that he outlined, but he announced the long dates to reduce the Y’s Osborne effect on the 3 as much as he can.

So that’s why I felt disappointed when I saw the Y. Are my fears justified or misplaced?
 
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That took a while to read, I think it will sell well. This couldn't come out before the 3 because Elon promised a 35k electric car. He wouldn't do it with the Y. But ya you are right it could be a bit different from three, but then again it's all about cost. The more parts are shared the better from a cost standpoint
 
That took a while to read, I think it will sell well. This couldn't come out before the 3 because Elon promised a 35k electric car. He wouldn't do it with the Y. But ya you are right it could be a bit different from three, but then again it's all about cost. The more parts are shared the better from a cost standpoint

By next year when the Model Y is finally in production and ready for prime time, Model 3 will drop in price and make it that much attractive.

To me, I would have driven M3 for 18 months at least and get to enjoy the quiet, the savings, the autopilot …

Not care about the gas price any more.
 
However once the Y is available, why would the aesthetically undifferentiated 3 continue to sell in the long run? People who want cheap would only save $2k by buying the 3.
Don't be surprised if there are further aesthetic tweaks to the Y before it enters production, as the same thing happened with the 3.

With the 3, you also have the benefit of more range, and on a per-mile basis, faster Supercharging.
 
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I expected an SUV with Tesla's design language, in the way that a Mercedes GLC shares brand cues with the C-Class sedan, but with the distinct shape and character of a SUV.

To me, Model Y is basically a Model 3 stretched vertically -- a Model 3 Plus if you will. They didn't even bother to give it different headlights, tail lights, wheels, etc. It's clear they want to release Model Y as soon as possible and put in as little effort in differentiation as necessary. The end result is awkward proportions and an underwhelming design.
 
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That took a while to read, I think it will sell well. This couldn't come out before the 3 because Elon promised a 35k electric car. He wouldn't do it with the Y. But ya you are right it could be a bit different from three, but then again it's all about cost. The more parts are shared the better from a cost standpoint

Remember he snuck in the X to make the 3 their 4th car the brand had released. They probably should have done a Y before a 3.
It could be sold at $40k. Crossover is more popular than sedan (in the US). It wouldn't create quite the gulf between 3 and S prices. It's also got more utility - being a hatchback and a 7 seater (though I think the 2 rear seats are kids seats).
 
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Name a better CUV than the Y between now and end of next year?

It’s like calling Kate Upton ugly while refusing to show pictures of your own wife or girlfriend.

There are tons of other SUVs I'd rather look at: BMW X3 and X4, Range Rover Evoque and Velar, Jaguar I-PACE and F-PACE, Mercedes GLC, etc.

One would have to be a real EV/Tesla diehard to pass on those vehicles in favor of Model Y, IMO. Model 3 looks appropriate (barely) as a luxury sports sedan. Model Y resembles nothing like a luxury SUV. Vehicles with the Model Y's "form factor" have not fared well in the marketplace (3-series GT, first-gen Infiniti QX50, etc.).
 
Remember he snuck in the X to make the 3 their 4th car the brand had released. They probably should have done a Y before a 3.
It could be sold at $40k. Crossover is more popular than sedan (in the US). It wouldn't create quite the gulf between 3 and S prices. It's also got more utility - being a hatchback and a 7 seater (though I think the 2 rear seats are kids seats).

If they did Model Y before Model 3, folks would complain that it looks like a weirdmobile. I think it made sense to release Model 3 first: establish that a reasonably-priced EV could look acceptable, then offer a taller, awkwardly-proportioned version (Model Y = Model 3 Plus) for those who need the extra space.
 
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There are tons of other SUVs I'd rather look at: BMW X3 and X4, Range Rover Evoque and Velar, Jaguar I-PACE and F-PACE, Mercedes GLC, etc.

One would have to be a real EV/Tesla diehard to pass on those vehicles in favor of Model Y, IMO. Model 3 looks appropriate (barely) as a luxury sports sedan. Model Y resembles nothing like a luxury SUV. Vehicles with the Model Y's "form factor" have not fared well in the marketplace (3-series GT, first-gen Infiniti QX50, etc.).

Here is MY problem with all the cars you listed:

1 - Not all of them are EVs
2 - NONE of them have long range charging networks
3 - NONE of them have driver assistance features as sophisticated as the Model Y (I'm even putting aside FSD for this argument)
4 - NONE of them have the space and mission flexibility of the Model Y.
5 - NONE of them have proven software updates that bring new functionality.

The Model Y isn't a "good" Tesla or "good" EV. It's a GREAT car period.
 
By next year when the Model Y is finally in production and ready for prime time, Model 3 will drop in price and make it that much attractive.

To me, I would have driven M3 for 18 months at least and get to enjoy the quiet, the savings, the autopilot …

Not care about the gas price any more.

What savings are you referring to?
Disregarding the fantastic ride of an EV drivetrain, and other subjective qualifications, I don't see the savings. The vehicle is not cheap to buy. Gas prices ARE cheap.
 
The Model Y isn't a "good" Tesla or "good" EV. It's a GREAT car period.

Do you have first hand experience driving / owning one? Then this is pure speculation.

It’s like calling Kate Upton ugly while refusing to show pictures of your own wife or girlfriend.

While I wouldn't call Kate "ugly", I've never understood her appeal and there are hundreds of other women I'd rather have on my arm.
 
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I expected an SUV with Tesla's design language, in the way that a Mercedes GLC shares brand cues with the C-Class sedan, but with the distinct shape and character of a SUV.

To me, Model Y is basically a Model 3 stretched vertically -- a Model 3 Plus if you will. They didn't even bother to give it different headlights, tail lights, wheels, etc. It's clear they want to release Model Y as soon as possible and put in as little effort in differentiation as necessary. The end result is awkward proportions and an underwhelming design.

The entire idea was to make a crossover version of the 3. That is what they have always stated and it is what they are delivering.
Using as many parts from the 3 is a benefit in that it lowers costs and ease of manufacturing.
This is exactly what they needed to do and my wife is very happy placing her order for one.
 
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Do you have first hand experience driving / owning one? Then this is pure speculation.



While I wouldn't call Kate "ugly", I've never understood her appeal and there are hundreds of other women I'd rather have on my arm.

Hi Matt!

I sat in a Model Y that was driven. It’s better than my 3. If a transfer didn’t cost money I would do it in a heartbeat.

It’s instantly familiar to those who are comfortable with a 3.

Kate is not my favorite supermodel either. My point is those complaining about the Y can’t really name a competitor that can beat it. I think it has no competition overall and especially not on the EV space?

If no supercharging network, it’s dead to me. Literally (if I want to travel) and figuratively.
 
Here is MY problem with all the cars you listed:

1 - Not all of them are EVs
2 - NONE of them have long range charging networks
3 - NONE of them have driver assistance features as sophisticated as the Model Y (I'm even putting aside FSD for this argument)
4 - NONE of them have the space and mission flexibility of the Model Y.
5 - NONE of them have proven software updates that bring new functionality.

The Model Y isn't a "good" Tesla or "good" EV. It's a GREAT car period.

Right. And to run down that list ...

BMW X3 and X4 - Smaller than the Y. I don't "do" BMW - don't like their design.
Range Rover Evoque and Velar - no thanks. Too expensive, still gas, too unreliable.
Jaguar I-PACE and F-PACE - drove an F-Pace, it's OK but the interface SUCKS. Still gasoline. i-PACE - limited range and crazy expensive.
Mercedes GLC - Still gasoline. Probably best of the bunch but much more $$ than the Model Y once you option it (oh, you want tires?)

I think the Model Y competes more with the MDX/RX350/QX50/XT5's of the world. Also plenty of reasons to choose the Model Y over those too.