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Is there a difference in the old 90 KWH Battery and the new one and the 100?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Villa-Lobos, Nov 27, 2016.

  1. Villa-Lobos

    Villa-Lobos Member

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    The difference in range from the old 90 battery and the new one is a 24 mile increase in range. I cannot believe that is all because of the new facelift. Does anyone know if there is a difference and in the new 90 KWH? Is it the same construction as the new 100KWH battery.
     
  2. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Not counting the "P" version, there are at least three versions of the 90 kwh battery all with different part numbers. It's not the refresh that caused the EPA rating to go up. No one knows for sure but likely the battery chemistry improved.
    As for the 100 kWh battery I believe it has different wiring to keep it cooler. I don't think there are more cells although they could be arranged differently. Not sure on that one.
     
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  3. Electric700

    Electric700 Active Member

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    I think there are more cells in the 100 kWh version when compared with the 90 kWh one, and they changed the cooling configuration so they could make room for these new cells.
     
  4. bswn1

    bswn1 Member

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    I believe this is untrue. The Tesla site listed the 85D range because it was EPA tested. When the 85D was dropped finally, it wasn't updated accordingly. After the Facelift was announced, it seems they finally put the true 90 pack range on the website.

    No range actually changed as far as I know.
     
  5. Troy

    Troy Active Member

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    #5 Troy, Nov 28, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
    That's not exactly the case. 270 miles was the EPA rated range of the S85D. When Tesla released the S90D, the EPA range tests were not complete so they continued to display S85D's 270 mi number for the S90D as well. Then a few months later S90D range on the website changed to 288 mi EPA. A few months after that, it changed to 294. You can see the S85D and S90D range numbers on the EPA website here under the small car icons.

    S90D = 288 miles EPA rated range in February 2016 (source)
    S90D = 294 miles EPA rated range in July 2016 and later (source)
     
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  6. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    The original 90D was, per Elon, "6% more" than the 85D which equals 286 rated miles and that was on the website at that time. That's what mine and others was when delivered 9/15/15. Around December 2015 through February 2016 we started getting reports backed up with screenshots of new battery part numbers with 292-294 rated miles. In April 2016 when the refresh came out yet another battery part number noted with language that the battery was specifically for the 4/2015 refresh came out with the same 294 rated miles. So you are right wrt the OP being incorrect about a 24 jump on 90D's, it was actually 8 miles more but in fact there are three versions of the battery released on three different dates.
     
  7. Villa-Lobos

    Villa-Lobos Member

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    I was told be the local store that on some 90D when fully charged it can show as much as 302 miles. Has anyone experienced this? Gonna order before year end but hoping the regular 100d is out by then to get more range. Thinking if the P100D gets 315+ miles then the non P version might get close to +335...
     
  8. Pantoot

    Pantoot Member

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    I have a pre-refresh 90d and a post refresh p90d. When charged to 90% the post refresh p90d has more range than the 90d (by usually 4 miles, 238 to 242.)

    I think it's pretty clear that they quietly made a change.
     
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  9. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    I think your 90D needs a balancing. I have an original 90 and my 90% is 253 rated.
     
  10. Sugacookie

    Sugacookie Member

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    I dont charge my car to 100% really ever. But the one time i did my MS 90D @100% was 335Mi. When i picked it up new, Early Sept the 100% was 292mi. My Wh/M average is about 290-300.
     
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  11. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    335 sounds like ideal not rated range or there's something wrong.
     
  12. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    Everything that I've seen indicates that the facelift 90 has different cells but the overall capacity is the same.
     
  13. Sugacookie

    Sugacookie Member

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    I got this number by changing Battery Percentage (Which is how i normally have it set) to the Battery Miles. Not sure which range they display, i would assume rated... But im not sure.
     
  14. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    If you mean chemistry I think that's right. BTW, the newer battery part number with the higher range came out 2 or 3 months before the facelift car came out in April.
     
  15. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    To the right of that switch is a radio button giving you the choice of displaying "rated" or "ideal" miles. You would want to change yours to "ideal".
     
  16. apacheguy

    apacheguy S Sig #255

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    Yeah. It's not unprecedented. The early 85 kWh packs had different cells compared to mid-2013 85 kWh. The first revision was capped at a max of 1.1 C charge rate.
     
  17. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Sorry @Sugacookie I just noticed a typo. I meant to say you should change it from "ideal" to "rated" miles.
     
  18. Nosken

    Nosken Member

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    Is there a way to tell which one an S90D has? Production Date?
     
  19. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    The 90D has three different Battery Part Numbers depending on when it was built. The sticker that has this number is in the right front wheel well above the tire. Best way to take a picture of it is to raise the suspension and turn your wheel as far left as possible. It will look like the one on the far right of this example.
    IMG_1480.JPG
     
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  20. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    CALCULATED Tesla battery specs. You can safely assume about 95% of rated capacity is usable with a new condition battery (zero degradation) at room temperature:


    Big battery cars - 403 volts max (96s * 4.2v)


    8064 cells * (3400mah * 3.65v) = 100kWh ("100" kWh)

    96s * 84p


    7104 cells * (3400mah * 3.65v) = 88.1kWh ("90" car)

    96s * 74p


    7104 cells * (3100mah * 3.65v) = 80.4kWh ("85" car)

    96s * 74p
     
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