TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Is this a normal amount of time to charge on a supercharger?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Soundchasr, Mar 21, 2016.

  1. Soundchasr

    Soundchasr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Very close
    Took my first ever trip in a P90D this weekend (Pgh to Cleveland). The temperature was about 40 degrees, pretty cold. When we arrived we had 30 miles left. I went to a supercharger before the return trip and I was expecting to get about 80% after about 35 minutes based on what the dealer told me a supercharger would do.

    Unfortunately, at 35 minutes we only had 155 miles (which should have been plenty but it was cold and I didn't want to risk it). It took 1 hour and 10 minutes to get 220 miles.

    Does this seem abnormal? My wife was sort of upset because she thought we were going to just hit the charger real quick and be on our way.

    Thanks for any input.
     
    • Informative x 1
  2. paulkva

    paulkva Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    565
    Location:
    Falls Church, VA
    There are numerous other threads on this topic, but long story short, yes, 35-40 minutes should've gotten you closer to 80%.

    I can't know for sure without more details, but there are a few possibilities:

    Most likely you were sharing power with someone else at the charger. Each space has a label with a number and a letter, 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, etc. Ideally you can have a number to yourself when you arrive, e.g. if 1A and 1B are both empty, choosing either one will give you maximum charge speed. If you plug into an "A" space while someone is already charging in the corresponding "B" space, or vice-versa, the other car gets priority and you just get whatever power is left over until they unplug.

    It's also possible that cold weather slowed down the charge, but that seems less likely to be the culprit. And finally, it's possible there was some sort of power issue at the charger.
     
    • Informative x 1
  3. Soundchasr

    Soundchasr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Very close
    That's really interesting about sharing. I had no idea. There was another person charging while we were there. I think I was about 2 spaces down from him (there were 7 chargers if I remember correctly). So, if someone else is charging and they are on 1 I should always go to 2?
     
  4. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,107
    Location:
    Fairfax, VA, USA
    Cold sounds likely to be the culprit. It sounds like you hit the charger after letting the car sit for a while, and not driving it much before you hit the Supercharger, is that right? When possible, you want to hit the charger on arrival, not departure, because then the battery will be nice and warm from the drive. 40 isn't extremely cold, but it's enough to trigger the regen limit, and that's going to mean a charging speed limit too.

    Otherwise, sometimes there's a slow charger, maybe equipment trouble or dirty contacts or who knows what. You can try switching to a different plug in that case. I always wait for the charge to ramp up, then look at the speed, amps, and volts to make sure they're reasonable. I haven't had to switch yet, but if they didn't come up to the values I expected then I would.

    For charger sharing, the stalls are typically labeled 1A, 1B, 2A, 2B, 3A, 3B, etc. The A and B on the same number are paired, so if somebody is on A, avoid that same number B, and vice versa. This is not 100% consistent but it's nearly always like this. 1A and 1B are often adjacent but not always.
     
    • Informative x 1
  5. Soundchasr

    Soundchasr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Very close
    Looks like I have a lot to learn about charging and range. How do you know if the speed, amps and volts is reasonable? What would reasonable numbers be?
     
  6. napabill

    napabill Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,324
    Location:
    Napa, California, United States
    And Tesla has chosen to use random patterns on where they place the pairs. Sometimes they are next to each other, sometimes not.
     
    • Informative x 1
  7. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2007
    Messages:
    7,041
    Right, that's why you look at the labels and don't assume a spots next to each other are paired.
     
  8. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,709
    Location:
    So Cal
    What was the max charge rate you observed? Don't worry your in the same boat as lots of folks. I get odd looks all the time at SpC as I shuffle my car around trying to find the right stall.
     
  9. Soundchasr

    Soundchasr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Very close
    For 30 minutes it was 100 something's......my wife says. After that it was about 90 .......
     
  10. paulkva

    paulkva Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    565
    Location:
    Falls Church, VA
    Units are important. :) 100kW would be decent. 100mph would not. By default I think charging speed is shown in mph and represents an average for your entire charging session. To figure out speed at any given moment, multiply Amps x Volts to get Watts. The max possible speed is ~120kW (roughly equivalent to 360mph) and it will taper off quickly as you build up a charge. As you probably saw on Tesla's website, even in ideal conditions, the last 20% takes about as long as the first 80% (~40 minutes each).
     
  11. rjcbox

    rjcbox Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    428
    Location:
    NJ, USA
    I think I've gotten up to 360 miles per hour charge rate starting at low state of charge in a 70D. It'll taper as battery gets full
     
  12. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,033
    Location:
    New York
    You would charge a LOT faster when the SOC (state of charge) of your battery is lower. For example, it would take less time going from 10% to 70%, than going from 20% to 80%; even though both cases are adding 60% to the battery.

    1 hour and 10 mins seems quite abnormal, you would get at least a 95% charge from a dead battery in that time frame. Like other people pointed out, you are very likely to be sharing power with another Tesla car next to you.

    You can check out another Tesla 90D owner recording their supercharging in real time. Just skip to whatever percentage or kwh added along the video.
     
  13. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,773
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    I would just add that Tesla doesn't have dealers. It has stores, or galleries in states that don't allow direct sales.
     
  14. dhanson865

    dhanson865 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2013
    Messages:
    1,496
    Location:
    Knoxville, Tennessee
    That would be best case if you drive in with <5 miles remaining range and the temperature is just right and you are the only one there.

    Watch the charge rate for the first few minutes, if it doesn't speed up quickly move to another charger and try again.

    Take a look at the graphs in the first post at Supercharging Curve for P90D Model X if you don't see that steep ramp up in the first few minutes something is off.
     
  15. Soundchasr

    Soundchasr Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2016
    Messages:
    246
    Location:
    Very close
    I have much to learn I see. That chart was Greek. :)
     
  16. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,019
    Check out this post:
    Supercharging Taper Curve for D+ Pack

    You want to look at the bottom graph. You can see I went from 35 miles when I arrived at 20:03 to about 180 miles at 20:33 (blue line, reference is on right). Tesla tells you that you'll add about 170 miles (for Model S) in 30 minutes from completely empty. As the battery begins to fill, the charging slows.

    Tesla's trip charging algorithms take this into account and on roadtrips, will aim to keep your battery lower so that it charges faster at each stop.
     
  17. ggnykk

    ggnykk Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2016
    Messages:
    1,033
    Location:
    New York
    Just curious, what's latest and fastest charging pack now? E pack? F pack?
     
  18. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,753
    Location:
    Texas
    I believe that all packs, except the A pack charge at the same rate. That rate varies by the SOC, pack temperature, and if you are the first car in the pair. Stalls are labeled 1A 1B, 2A 2B, 3A 3B, etc. If possible make sure you are the only person in a pair.
     
  19. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2012
    Messages:
    7,019
    Complicated question. Each type of pack (85 kWh/single motor, 85 kWh/dual motor, 60 kWh, 70 kWh, etc.) has a different revision, and even the refurbished packs can have a different revision letter in the part number compared with new packs. The reference to "D" pack is an old one, and in this case refers to my 85 kWh single-motor pack. The only real limitation was on rev A packs of 85 kWh, single motor, where Supercharging was limited to 90 kW. We've seen all other pack revisions draw a max of 123 kW (120 kW charging + the cooling load).
     
  20. apacheguy

    apacheguy Sig 255, VIN 320

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2012
    Messages:
    3,709
    Location:
    So Cal
    All 85 kWh packs after A use the same cells so they charge equally fast. 90 kWh charges considerably slower. This is due to different cell chemistry and possibly higher cell impedance. In the embedded video above, the car reached the 90 kW crossover a whole 10% below where mine does.

    Definitely mph. So you were sharing a stall or the stall you were using had reduced power output.
     

Share This Page