Is this used 2020M3P a bad idea?

[father_of_6]

That'd be an easy decision for me... I value FSD at about zero dollars, and while the P *is* faster, the LR is still very fast but gets better range with 18" tires.

What I'd be looking at is... does the LR have USS?

 

[ts2340]

Here's some food for thought. I bought FSD with my first Model 3, it was a total waste of money (my opinion). True FSD is far from reliable or proven. The performance speed is nice and amazingly quick, but add Acceleration boost onto the LR AWD when you have an extra $2k around and it's also very fast. plus you get the longer range and a full factory warranty with the new vehicle. LR AWD will also get the $3,750 tax rebate.

I appreciate the reply! I've read that so.many.times. that FSD sucks.. I don't know why I'm so dead set on wanting it, but I'm now leaving that open.. I think the LR AWD will be a lot faster than what I have now (2017 Maxima Plantium).. That said, a new LR is still $50,036 after tax and fees minus the rebate.. However, there are a lot of 2022's in the range I was looking at ($45k OTD)..

There's even a dude close to me (1 hour) that has a 2023 with only 4,000 miles that he may sell at $42K.. May go take a look..

Used Cars for Sale Near Me - CarGurus

Search used car listings to find the best deals. Use the best tools & resources to help with your purchase. We analyze millions of used cars daily.

www.cargurus.com

 

[ts2340]

That'd be an easy decision for me... I value FSD at about zero dollars, and while the P *is* faster, the LR is still very fast but gets better range with 18" tires.

What I'd be looking at is... does the LR have USS?

lol. zero dollars.. That's funny. Is that because you used it and hated it? I'm beginning to veer away from NEEDING it vs wanting it.. USS stopped after what, 2020?

 

[father_of_6]

Also I ate my first two sets of tires for breakfast, so having a 0-60 time faster than the LR already is has become less important to me... I get yelled at when my wife is in the car if I don't drive like a granny

 

[father_of_6]

lol. zero dollars.. That's funny. Is that because you used it and hated it? I'm beginning to veer away from NEEDING it vs wanting it.. USS stopped after what, 2020?

The idea of a car actually driving itself is fantastic... I'd sleep or play games on road trips. The idea of a car driving poorly and then leaving me to react at the last second is anxiety inducing.

I was excited to drive when I was 16 (15 actually ), but after 25 years of driving it became something I *had* to do, not something I wanted to do. That all changed 2.5 years ago when I got my M3LR... now I find excuses to drive anywhere (still now after 2.5 years). The car is so much fun to drive. FSD would ruin that.

Certainly there are owners that love FSD. Some of them are drinking the Kool aid and turning a blind eye to the danger. Others legitimately are able to make their daily commute without disengagements. Any many others are calling it a major scam and lining up to class action Tesla for their $15,000 back.

I still believe LiDAR is required for true autonomous driving... unless Tesla has a major breakthrough. Cameras get tricked by shadows and reflections on wet roads. They get blinded by the sun. Mine only work intermittently during winter months. It's a pipe dream.

 

[ts2340]

The idea of a car actually driving itself is fantastic... I'd sleep or play games on road trips. The idea of a car driving poorly and then leaving me to react at the last second is anxiety inducing.

I was excited to drive when I was 16 (15 actually ), but after 25 years of driving it became something I *had* to do, not something I wanted to do. That all changed 2.5 years ago when I got my M3LR... now I find excuses to drive anywhere (still now after 2.5 years). The car is so much fun to drive. FSD would ruin that.

Certainly there are owners that love FSD. Some of them are drinking the Kool aid and turning a blind eye to the danger. Others legitimately are able to make their daily commute without disengagements. Any many others are calling it a major scam and lining up to class action Tesla for their $15,000 back.

I still believe LiDAR is required for true autonomous driving... unless Tesla has a major breakthrough. Cameras get tricked by shadows and reflections on wet roads. They get blinded by the sun. Mine only work intermittently for like 5 wintery months a year. It's a pipe dream.

So I've read mixed things on AP vs EAP / FSD.. Does AP just do adaptive cruise control? That's what my Maxima has, great feature and I would never get another car without it.. But is that, it? No lane change? As in, if I'm on the highway and put my left blinker on, will it change lanes or is that EAP/FSD required?

 

[father_of_6]

Just my opinions though, obviously. I'd hate for you to buy something you regret. There are many owners who regret buying FSD though.

I guess in your case you wouldn't exactly be paying for it... but indirectly you might be by passing up a potentially better deal (if one exists).

I've been fairly active on the forums for the past 2 years. Many posts of owners who bought FSD on their first Tesla but not on their 2nd or 3rd... and many posts of owners blowing out their 20" tires or downsizing for comfort and/or range. The tires are an easy choice for me too... I care nothing about having larger rims because of a look. Smaller rims are more efficient, more comfortable ride, safer, and the tires cost less. That's just me though, personality type.

 

[804son]

So I've read mixed things on AP vs EAP / FSD.. Does AP just do adaptive cruise control? That's what my Maxima has, great feature and I would never get another car without it.. But is that, it? No lane change? As in, if I'm on the highway and put my left blinker on, will it change lanes or is that EAP/FSD required?

AP will not do automatic lane changes, when you put your blinker on, AP will disengage to TACC, you change lanes, then double tap to engage AP again.
EAP will do automatic lane changes, $6K

 

[father_of_6]

So I've read mixed things on AP vs EAP / FSD.. Does AP just do adaptive cruise control? That's what my Maxima has, great feature and I would never get another car without it.. But is that, it? No lane change? As in, if I'm on the highway and put my left blinker on, will it change lanes or is that EAP/FSD required?

I don't even use TACC. Phantom braking, no thanks.

 

[M3_Performante]

Mine came with EAP, but I have rarely ever used it. It's fun for a few minutes for the novalty but I just don't trust it enough and the car is too much fun to not want to drive it yourself.

I would save the money and pass on FSD and just get the EAP if you want most of the same features for much less money...but if I was buying new I would skip all of them and save the money for mods.....you can always add it later if you think you really need it

 

[ColoradoMike]

Thanks for the replies. What is SOC? So are you saying, if I only need to drive to work and back (17 miles x 2) then I should only charge to that level and not to 80%

We used to charge at 60%. Now we charge at 50% simply based on our needs locally.

So I've read mixed things on AP vs EAP / FSD.. Does AP just do adaptive cruise control? That's what my Maxima has, great feature and I would never get another car without it.. But is that, it? No lane change? As in, if I'm on the highway and put my left blinker on, will it change lanes or is that EAP/FSD required?

AP does have adaptive CC. No lane changes for simple AutoPilot. Your Car will not do a lane change for simple autopilot. EAP may do that but I have zero experience with that.

AP will not do automatic lane changes, when you put your blinker on, AP will disengage to TACC, you change lanes, then double tap to engage AP again.
EAP will do automatic lane changes, $6K

Agreed. No automatic lane changing. What we figured out is that once the "maneuver" is done changing lanes do the "double tap" to allow the vehicle to be centered in the lane. This took us a bit to figure out but it works.

 

[ts2340]

Mine came with EAP, but I have rarely ever used it. It's fun for a few minutes for the novalty but I just don't trust it enough and the car is too much fun to not want to drive it yourself.

I would save the money and pass on FSD and just get the EAP if you want most of the same features for much less money...but if I was buying new I would skip all of them and save the money for mods.....you can always add it later if you think you really need it

What mods do you speak of?

 

[ts2340]

So I'm seeing 2022's that have the Intel Atom and some that have the Ryzen.. I'm assuming the Ryzen is the fast / new one so did they switch mid year or something?

 

[M3_Performante]

What mods do you speak of?

all sorts of things...suspension upgrades, wheels, tint, PPF/wrap, etc....

 

[father_of_6]

So I'm seeing 2022's that have the Intel Atom and some that have the Ryzen.. I'm assuming the Ryzen is the fast / new one so did they switch mid year or something?

Tesla doesn't do model years... they make continuous changes whenever they have something new. For this reason you really need to know which things you're looking for.

 

[ts2340]

Ahhh.. So, things to consider:

Heat Pump Installed?
CSS Adapter Installed?
USS? (How can I tell this?)
Power Trunk (Is that 2022+ only?)
Heated Steering Wheel (Also a 2022+ only?)
All LR/P's have the premium audio, yes?

What else am I missing? I just found a 2021 LR with 27K Miles for $42K (without trying to haggle down). It's 6 hours away from me but LOOOOOOVE the color combo it has..

 

[D.E.]

There have been some nice recent changes in the autopilot. I’ve had it 6 years and until recently it’s been a glorified cruise control with lane centering and occasional wild ass sudden slowdowns. Those slowdowns get your attention but they’ve only been about 15mph slower, so they feel worse than they are. They always happen when I’m showing off the car. That sucks a little. No one buys a Tesla after one of those.

But now it fully stops at red lights, goes when the light turns green, it can go around a traffic circle, and changes to the current speed limit. I haven’t seen phantom braking in a while. I’d show it off but I’ve used up all my friends.

I don’t need autopilot but I do like being on the cutting edge of technology. It’s entertainment for me, and it keeps me alert. Theres nothing like beta software where you’re part of it and a glitch can get you as well. I watch it like a hawk. I don’t know what the Tesla programmers are really like but I envision a room full of barely adult pimply somewhat gifted coders, where an occasional divide by zero causes fun loving ribbing from the others. Much as I like a good time, I don’t want that divide by zero steering me full tilt into that ditch on the side of the road.

I didn’t pay $15K for it. Tesla has had sales in the past. I don’t think I’d pay $15K. I do like to be entertained, but $15K will buy me a whole lot of entertainment elsewhere.

 

[DocHolliday]

Ahhh.. So, things to consider:

Heat Pump Installed?
CSS Adapter Installed?
USS? (How can I tell this?)
Power Trunk (Is that 2022+ only?)
Heated Steering Wheel (Also a 2022+ only?)
All LR/P's have the premium audio, yes?

What else am I missing? I just found a 2021 LR with 27K Miles for $42K (without trying to haggle down). It's 6 hours away from me but LOOOOOOVE the color combo it has..

The first two you can tell from the car's config screen. USS - you'll either see the little ports on the bumper or not. Power trunk I think started with the 2021 refresh, same with heated wheel but not for all trims. As others have said, it's hard to know the configuration and options without inspecting the actual car. Good luck, I think you'll be happy with either a LR or P. I have not driven an SR.

 

[jjrandorin]

I've read that so.many.times. that FSD sucks.. I don't know why I'm so dead set on wanting it,

You already posted the answer to this question, but may not realize that is what the answer is...

20 years in IT

(this is likely why you are set on getting FSD, since this is your first tesla, and FSD is the biggest "gizmo" on the car)

Most of the feedback you will hear about FSD is not positive, mostly because it is not doing what was promised a long time ago (coupled with how most feedback online is negative).

If it helps at all, I have full FSD on my 2018 Model 3P and am satisfied with what I paid for the entire package of it back then (8k), but thats partially because I only ascribed its feature set to be what it existed at in 2018, not what was "promised" and also because it came with a hardware upgrade to get the newer computer in my car. For my wifes 2022 Model Y (which comes with autopilot), I saw no need to pay for FSD at the 12k to 15k price point it is on a new car.

On a used Tesla, "Autopilot", and the FSD computer V3.0 would be the "must haves" for me, FSD being there or not would not be a deal breaker unless the car was a 2018 or 2019 model 3, because those came with FSD computer 2.5.

 

[ts2340]

There have been some nice recent changes in the autopilot. I’ve had it 6 years and until recently it’s been a glorified cruise control with lane centering and occasional wild ass sudden slowdowns. Those slowdowns get your attention but they’ve only been about 15mph slower, so they feel worse than they are. They always happen when I’m showing off the car. That sucks a little. No one buys a Tesla after one of those.

But now it fully stops at red lights, goes when the light turns green, it can go around a traffic circle, and changes to the current speed limit. I haven’t seen phantom braking in a while. I’d show it off but I’ve used up all my friends.

I don’t need autopilot but I do like being on the cutting edge of technology. It’s entertainment for me, and it keeps me alert. Theres nothing like beta software where you’re part of it and a glitch can get you as well. I watch it like a hawk. I don’t know what the Tesla programmers are really like but I envision a room full of barely adult pimply somewhat gifted coders, where an occasional divide by zero causes fun loving ribbing from the others. Much as I like a good time, I don’t want that divide by zero steering me full tilt into that ditch on the side of the road.

I didn’t pay $15K for it. Tesla has had sales in the past. I don’t think I’d pay $15K. I do like to be entertained, but $15K will buy me a whole lot of entertainment elsewhere.

Thanks for this post. Can totally relate and had me lol.