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Isn't it about time for Tesla to release an SAE Combo (CCS) adapter?

RDoc

S85D
Aug 24, 2012
2,736
1,583
Boston North Shore
There are quite a few DC charging stations appearing that have CCS plugs so it would be nice if Tesla would provide an adapter. In the past the argument was that there weren't any charging stations, but that is rapidly changing.

Assuming that it only supported the most common DC mode through the bottom pins, it should be pretty simple since it uses the same kind of PLC signalling as Superchargers do. In the past Tesla has said it would be a passive plug, unlike the CHAdeMO adapter that has to do signalling translation.
 

liuping

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,242
896
San Diego
There are quite a few DC charging stations appearing that have CCS plugs so it would be nice if Tesla would provide an adapter. In the past the argument was that there weren't any charging stations, but that is rapidly changing.
Are there many locations with SAE Combo plugs that do not also have CHAdeMO plug?

At least here in CA, all the (non Supercharger) DC fast charging stations are either CHAdeMO only or ChandMO and SAE combo chargers.
 
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RDoc

S85D
Aug 24, 2012
2,736
1,583
Boston North Shore
Are there many locations with SAE Combo plugs that do not also have CHAdeMO plug?

At least here in CA, all the (non Supercharger) DC fast charging stations are either CHAdeMO only or ChandMO and SAE combo chargers.
No, they are typically both, but a CCS adapter would be both smaller and cheaper than the CHAdeMO.
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,172
5,087
There are quite a few DC charging stations appearing that have CCS plugs so it would be nice if Tesla would provide an adapter. In the past the argument was that there weren't any charging stations, but that is rapidly changing.

Assuming that it only supported the most common DC mode through the bottom pins, it should be pretty simple since it uses the same kind of PLC signalling as Superchargers do. In the past Tesla has said it would be a passive plug, unlike the CHAdeMO adapter that has to do signalling translation.
Although I also want them to make one, I think it makes more sense in Europe at the moment (where CCS has exploded and there might be sites with CCS only). In the US, it is still moving very slowly and most CCS sites have CHAdeMO also.

And from what we know so far, the superchargers don't use PLC signalling for the digital communication but rather a CAN bus (similar to CHAdeMO). The analog part however does match CCS protocol exactly.
 
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TexasEV

Well-Known Member
Jun 5, 2013
7,643
8,478
Austin, TX
Tesla has limited bandwidth. I think that wouldn't be a high priority unless a large CCS network appears that serves routes not covered by superchargers or CHAdeMO.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,172
5,087
Ok, so $400 is too expensive? Really? We are talking about a $100K car after all...
I'm pretty sure the answer is yes (price is actually $450 though), given there is a rental scheme for it. The CCS adapter can potentially be $95 like the regular J1772 adapter if it is a simple physical adapter (although no guarantee this will be true). $450 people still hesitate unless they are sure they will use it enough to justify, $100 would be a lot easier to justify regardless, esp. if things evolve where most chargers with have both types. No reason to spend $450 when $100 will accomplish exactly the same thing.
 

liuping

Active Member
Jul 23, 2013
2,242
896
San Diego
I'm pretty sure the answer is yes (price is actually $450 though), given there is a rental scheme for it. The CCS adapter can potentially be $95 like the regular J1772 adapter if it is a simple physical adapter (although no guarantee this will be true). $450 people still hesitate unless they are sure they will use it enough to justify, $100 would be a lot easier to justify regardless, esp. if things evolve where most chargers with have both types. No reason to spend $450 when $100 will accomplish exactly the same thing.

Given that there are sill far more CHAdeMO chargers than SAE (and nearly the SAE's are also CHAdeMO), I would rather spend $450 on the CHAdeMO than $95 on an SAE.

I bought the adapter to give me the widest set of charging choices. An SAE adapter would limit you to a small subset.
 

N4HHE

Member
Oct 15, 2013
715
57
Madison, AL
I decided it was wiser to decline the twin charger option and wait for CHAdeMO adapter no matter its 2013 expected price was over $1000. Had to wait a year but price fell to $450. Have actually used it once! I'm happy as if I had good sense! Made a 250 mile day with 10 slow miles on the Barbers Motorsports track practical. I didn't have to limp to/from at 60 MPH.
 

miimura

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
6,252
5,865
Los Altos, CA
I disagree. Tesla should only make a CCS or SAE Combo adapter when there are chargers actually installed that can do 200 amps or more. In the US, the only dedicated CCS chargers are the BMW i / ChargePoint Express 100 units that can only put out 60-ish amps DC which is about 24kW. That is nearly pointless for a Tesla. Audi is talking about installing fast chargers in the US for their upcoming long range crossover. These will presumably be 150kW SAE Combo chargers. Those would be useful to Tesla drivers and Tesla should make an adapter to allow it.
 
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ChrisC

see signature
Apr 27, 2009
880
630
Atlanta, GA
Hey y'all ... There are quite a few threads on TMC that touch on the concept of an SAE Combo / CCS adapter for Tesla cars, and I picked this one to bump up.

As you may know, Volkswagen is currently funding, via their Electrify America program, a major rollout of DC Fast Charging across the country. The first stations opened in early May, and feature 150 kW charging at minimum, and even 350 kW charging, although the latter obviously still awaits a car that can absorb it. Currently there are 5 sites online, 31 sites under construction, and hundreds more planned for the next year.

They are supporting both SAE Combo and Chademo plugs at their sites. However, crucially, each site will have only one Chademo plug. They will have at least four pedestals at each site, and usually more than that (e.g. 8, 10, etc.), but only one of those will support Chademo.

Further, the Chademo plugs only support 50 kW at launch. They are supposed to be supporting 100 kW eventually, but they are waiting on cars to test with, or something like that. Until today, I've been wondering how angry the Leaf and Tesla owners were going to be about being limited to just that one plug.

OK, so all that is background for a bombshell ...

I heard from someone today that a SAE Combo to Tesla adapter now exists. They saw a Tesla at one of the Electrify America sites under construction, and that Tesla owner had an SAE Combo to Tesla adapter to show off.

They weren't able to test it, since the site isn't powered up yet. Also, this is second hand info; I did not see it for myself.

An SAE Combo adapter should actually be much easier to develop than the Chademo adapter. The former's interface is already (electrically) fairly close to Tesla's, whereas the latter's interface is completely different and that's why the Chademo adapter took so long for Tesla to develop.

Any speculation? I think Tesla is testing prototypes. They certainly will want to be able to use these new EA sites, since they will offer far higher power levels than any Chademo site.
 

SageBrush

REJECT Fascism
May 7, 2015
12,331
15,241
New Mexico
Since Tesla is looking like 90% of EVs in the US for years to come, I'm much more in favor of ditching the ChadeMo cable and installing a Tesla cable instead at the Electrify America stations. With time the SAE and Tesla protocols can grow closer together.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
15,554
34,084
Oregon
An SAE Combo adapter should actually be much easier to develop than the Chademo adapter. The former's interface is already (electrically) fairly close to Tesla's, whereas the latter's interface is completely different and that's why the Chademo adapter took so long for Tesla to develop.

Actually CHAdeMO uses the same interface, CAN, to communicate while CCS uses a different protocol.

There is also the issue that the standards body that controls CCS currently doesn't allow adapters.
 

chillaban

Active Member
May 5, 2016
3,723
6,539
Bay Area
I thought I’d never use a CHAdeMO adapter.... until I arrived at supercharger station suffering a power outage. There was a CHAdeMO station two blocks down.

Luckily, stranded with me was by far the nicest Tesla owner I’ve ever met, who stayed with me to let me borrow his adapter.

Needless to say, as soon as I arrived I placed an order for a CHAdeMO adapter. I hope I’ll never need to use one, but when I do, I’ll be damn glad to have that option available!
 

ChrisC

see signature
Apr 27, 2009
880
630
Atlanta, GA
CCS is clearly the future, CHAdeMO is moribund, and Tesla is part of the CharIn group, so IMHO they are just waiting for the final specs.

Yes, thank you, I meant to mention that in my post. Tesla joined the CharIn CCS industry group two years ago, and I fully expected that they did so in order to be able to do some sort of integration. I thought it was because they would add a CCS plug to one of their pedestals at Supercharging sites, helping the general EV effort, which obviously hasn't happened yet. But it would also give them the insight to make the adapter, helping their own customers.

Actually CHAdeMO uses the same interface, CAN, to communicate while CCS uses a different protocol.

Thank you for that correction. Perhaps I was getting this confused with the similarity at the Level 2 interfaces. Chademo's electrical (pinning/wiring) interface is very different from both Tesla and CCS, and I've always assumed that's what Tesla had so much trouble with. But perhaps it was with the CAN interface, or just Chademo stations that weren't complying with the spec. I just know that it took Tesla f-o-r-e-v-e-r to get that Chademo interface done and out the door, like two years.

There is also the issue that the standards body that controls CCS currently doesn't allow adapters.

Yeah, I saw that, and thought that Tesla might be simply ignoring it. Elon certainly has the cojones to do that. Or they could be working on an update to the standard that does allow adapters.
 

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