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It’s been 1051 days since I paid in full for FSD

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"But as I have said, the best customer relations move is to offer something to Dome and others who were in the group who paid $3k for features that were not delivered for at least a year and up to three years."

I would accept either of these: my car to drive automatically as I was shown in the FSD video or an upgrade to a new 100 kWh battery... either would be an acceptable gesture :D
 
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The historic pricing is no easy slog to figure out, but I would say it is:

1. Basic AP $2,000. That was either $2,000 or $3,000 of the optional "EAP" (see Trips post).
2. EAP $2k or $3k, that means EAP was either the "rest" of the $5K paid by Dome, or, for those of us who bought in the current pricing structure, some chunk of the $6K which bundled the old EAP features into the new FSD suite of features.
3. FSD: For those like Dome, it was the easiest = $3K. That's the group, due to length of time and no delivery of features who is owed. Newer purchasers like me paid $6k for some features delievered, some not.
Directly from my MVPA:
upload_2019-11-19_17-52-35.png
 
If you want to look at Autopilot as being free you can but when they started including it they increased the base price $2,000.

From the Press Release: "All Tesla vehicles now come with Autopilot bundled as a standard feature for less than the prior cost of the option. For example, Model 3 Standard Plus used to cost $37,500, plus $3,000 for the Autopilot option. It now costs $39,500, with Autopilot included."

Tesla has considerably lowered their car prices since 2016. Reality is, in 2016-2017 we paid more for the car AND more for the FSD... $8-$10k for EAP+FSD. In early 2019 people were even able to buy EAP+FSD for half that in Tesla’s discounts...

Today people can buy AP+FSD for $7k AND buy the car significantly cheaper than in 2016-2017. So, people who bought AP2 in 2016-2017 paid more and so far have received less than those who bought later... and were of course cheated the most by Tesla’s empty promises, which also incidentally were the biggest empty promises in 2016 than they ever have been since on Design Studio...

Not really a great deal to buy into AP2 in 2016 any way you look at it, but we didn’t know of course what kind of company Tesla really is then...
 
People used to pay extra for anti lock brakes, now it's standard and even required by law. That's how it goes.

You used to have to pay extra to get 300+ horsepower in a Mustang (a regular one, not the EV one), and now it's standard. Technology marches on and other OEMs have no interest in retrofitting/upgrading older models. This is normal.
 
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People used to pay extra for anti lock brakes, now it's standard and even required by law. That's how it goes.

You used to have to pay extra to get 300+ horsepower in a Mustang (a regular one, not the EV one), and now it's standard. Technology marches on and other OEMs have no interest in retrofitting/upgrading older models. This is normal.

Except in the case of Tesla you’d only get the anti-lock brakes after later buyers (who paid less) got them installed... so you basically just paid more to get the technology later.

Certainly a novel spin on ”the early-adopter tax”... ;)

Not a single feature of the FSD pack of 2016 has been delivered so far. But now new buyers have HW3 with cone detection/presentation while 2016 buyers — who paid early and paid more — still have nothing for their FSD.
 
Not really a great deal to buy into AP2 in 2016 any way you look at it

That is true.

We didn't pay for any kind of AP for our AP2 X. At the time here in the UK EAP was £4500, with additional extra for FSD. Post delivery at one point Tesla wanted nearly £10k for FSD!!!

Come earlier this year Tesla offered up FSD for our car for 'just' £4900, so only £500 more than what EAP cost back as original factory order - so we took the bait.

Was it a good idea to pay £4900, I don't regret it, and we'll see if Tesla actually do deliver AP3 for our AP2 car :).
 
Hang in there. Don't give up now. Tesla is starting upgrades on AP2.5 cars now. I am sure upgrades for the AP2 cars will come after that. Tesla is working on it as fast as they can.

This is what I'd call the sunk cost fallacy, or maybe even the gambler's fallacy. They very clearly are not working as fast as they can, but they are likely working as fast as they're willing. Several of us pointed this out months ago, and you thought we were just being negative. Upgrading customer equipment is a massive undertaking, and anybody telling you that it's just as simple a simple job is lying to you.

I worked doing Cable internet installs many, many years ago. It turned out that the local cable company needed to swap out the modems for what basically amounted to our entire first year of installed users. While we kept doing our regular installs and service calls. It took well over two years to re-visit that one year of installation, and the job was literally as easy as unplug the old device, plug the new one in, verify it got an IP address on our test laptop, and leave. Over two years. Tesla has a quarter of a million units to replace, which is close to three orders of magnitude beyond what we had to do back at the town cable company I contracted with.

I fully expect I won't even get the offer to upgrade my HW2.5 Model 3 until end of 2020. Their rollout plan is to move from west to east in the US, grouped by purchase date of FSD and vehicle. I'm in the northeast US, I purchased my car in September of 2018 with EAP, and ordered FSD when it was $2000 in 2019. End of 2020 would be surprising pleasant to me. Hell, I didn't even get my P3D spoiler until two months ago!

NO! I doubt it will take that long. Right now, Tesla is just doing a few isolated test upgrades. The rate of upgrades will greatly increase when Tesla starts the mass upgrade schedule. And when Tesla does figure out the issues with MCU1 and AP2 cars, they can do mass upgrades for those cars as well. So those upgrades can happen very quickly once the issues are solved. It won't take a whole year for each.

How is the rate going to greatly increase? They don't even have enough service techs for their work load today. Scheduling service is weeks out in most places, and even months out in other places. Now you're going to force every car in the fleet made between October 2016 and mid-April 2019 to receive a computer replacement? That's assuming HW1 owners don't get an upgrade, too, of course. Based on delivery numbers, that's right around 448,039 vehicles. Again, assuming they don't offer anything at all to HW1 owners. So half a million cars need to have someone take the dashboard off, replace a computer, and put the dashboard back on.

Let's be very generous and say that takes an average of 15 minutes, we ignore things like travel time for ranger service and parking lot space for service centers. That's 112009.75 person hours of time. That's 11,201 10 hour work days. That's 2241 business weeks. That's 45 work years presuming each work year is 50 weeks. All day, every day, no breaks, no travel time, no delays, no nothing. 45 work years of time. At a billing rate of $175 per hour, they're basically burning $882,076,781.25 of possible revenue. Even if their techs only cost them a third of that and their total compensation is $50 an hour, they're spending $5,600,487.50 to make this happen in payroll alone. And again, 45 work years of time.

The speed isn't going to greatly increase. It's going to rely heavily on people trading in their vehicles before they're able to get the hardware upgraded. All the early HW2 cars are nearing 4 years old at this point. Leases will be returned, purchased cars will be traded in, and those customers will get HW3 in their new cars.
 
How is the rate going to greatly increase?

While I do think Tesla is only going to ramp up the retrofits slowly and @diplomat33 ’s expecation of some ”mass retrofits” starting at some point is possibly too optimistic, there is at least one way in which the rate can still ”greatly” increase: making the retrofit available to all SCs worldwide as well as making the MCU1 retrofit kits (AP2 and 2.5 alike) available. That step is still not done at least. Even if all the SCs go about this as slowly, the fact that all would be doing it would still be a great improvement over the current situation.
 
I think my biggest mistake was buying FSD when I did. I bought it when I bought the car and thus increased the purchase price of the car. Why is this bad? Colorado ownership tax. I've been paying almost 3 years of ownership tax on a $3000 feature that does nothing. :(. It equates to about $80/year.

If I waited I could have bought FSD for $2k and not added any taxable value to my car. That would have saved me $1000 (FSD Discount) + $500 (tax over life of car) + $500ish (investment interest) = $2000 down the hole. Or not get FSD in the first place and save a lot more. LOL.

Live and learn I guess. I'm very very interested in Tesla's solution to 2.0 owners as well as anyone with MCU1. It's going to be entertaining!
 
I know many forum goers roll their eyes anytime someone posts a "Where's my promised FSD" thread, but I think it's good to keep on Tesla and make them realize this will not go unanswered, like many transgressions of the past...Especially since this was a paid feature; separate from the rest of the car.
 
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As a AP2.0/MCU1 owner, my opinion is that the upgrade won't happen. They will come out with some FSD- version for us and call it a day.
A couple other opinions (again, my opinions).
1. If they offered a free FSD upgrade on trade in, I would take it and upgrade my X to a raven edition.
2. FSD is a long ways off, they can't even read speed limit signs in 2.0+ that 1.0 had no problems with. In my area there are trips I take where the speed limit is wrong dozens of times on a 2 hr trip. Until they get speed limit sign recognition added in 2.0+ they are a ways off from FSD.
 
That's assuming HW1 owners don't get an upgrade, too, of course.

What?! HW1 can never get FSD since it lacks the needed cameras. Also, HW1 was never promised FSD. FSD was only introduced with HW2. You are just making something up completely out of thin air.

The speed isn't going to greatly increase. It's going to rely heavily on people trading in their vehicles before they're able to get the hardware upgraded. All the early HW2 cars are nearing 4 years old at this point. Leases will be returned, purchased cars will be traded in, and those customers will get HW3 in their new cars.

You make the case that some cars won't need the upgrade if the owners decide to trade them in or their lease is up. So the actual number of cars that need the upgrade will be less than the current cars in the fleet. But the remaining cars will need the upgrade. And the current rate of upgrades is far too slow to upgrade the fleet in any meaningful and timely manner. So yes, Tesla will need to greatly increase the rate of upgrades.
 
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Fuel to the fire! LOL. Tesla "support" says to call your service center to schedule your upgrade to 3.0 to start by the end of the year! :p

Hi there John,
We have been informed that this will take place in a roll out process by the end of the year. I suggest you get in touch with your local service station.

If you have any further questions or if I can help in any way, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Thanks for being part of the Tesla family.
Kind Regards,

Cxxxxxx G. | Tesla Support
12832 Frontrunner Blvd., Draper, UT 84020
 
Just picked up my 2020 Model S Long Range Raven.
FSD tried to side-swipe two times over 3 days - once on on-ramp, the other when two cars changing lanes. I need to be MORE vigilant using FSD. Turning off now and deciding to return car to get different one without crazy FSD.
Do NOT recommend buying any FSD or other Tesla 'option' unless its proven working before purchase - save the $7K and use it wisely elsewhere.

PS Autopilot on our Model X and this S work fine - good feature, and present on other ICE cars, so not really distinguishing. I just like electric.
 
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