ithium-sulphur (Li-S) batteries with an energy density 5-8 times higher

[voyager]

The dream that lithium batteries could one day power Electric Vehicles (EVs) to travel more than 2,000 km on a single charge is set to become reality, thanks to scientist team of Brighsun New Energy (based in Australia).

Brighsun’s revolutionary long-range EV batteries to enter industrial trials | New Mobility

Haven't we heard this before?
Love to read people's comments...

 

[Tessaract]

Yes we've heard this before. And it will most likely even be true one day. However...

There is a long road between proving something works in a lab, or at small scale production, even in "trial production", and showing it is scalable to volume production. It's not just a question of making more of what was already made (i.e. "volume"). There are many potential pitfalls between showing a prototype works and then solving the problems that creep up when one tries to "build the machine that builds the machine". Some small volume things/processes can't be done, or are too expensive, like in high volume. Said otherwise: the small scale processes are "not scalable". Cheaper, high-volume processes often need to be invented/designed. These cheaper processes often introduce problems not seen before... etc.

Even if these batteries work as advertised (and I"m not even casting shade on the claims), there will be many new problems to be solved before volume production is achieved. Problems nobody anticipated. Even problems that could not have been anticipated. Which is why forecasts like "will be in volume production in 2021" must be treated as if they were an expression of your fondest hope expressed to the tooth fairy. And there's a small chance the tooth fairy is actually listening this time...

Been there... done that.

Many groups are working on their own flavour of the "solid state" battery. There isn't just one way to "skin the cat". What we can't predict is who will encounter the fewest effort-sapping, schedule-enlarging volume production problems along the way....

 

[Uncle Paul]

Elon's response to the multitude of dreamers usually puts their claims into perspective....Send me a battery.

Battery technology has been creeping forward...constantly improving, but the huge breakthroughs that everyone is searching for has not made an appearance...yet.

 

[BluestarE3]

Haven't we heard this before?

Yes, Sakti3 comes to mind. They were going to stamp out solid state batteries like they're computer chips. The founder was feted at the White House and their revolutionary technology (originally developed at the University of Michigan) was going to be a game-changer for portable electronic devices small and large... ultimately making their way into lower cost, longer range and safer electric cars. However, the company was very secretive and none of their fabulous claims were independently verified. Yet, James Dyson was so wowed that he first invested in the company and later bought them out. After a couple of years, Dyson quietly wrote off their Sakti3 investment and the founder left.

 

[Cosmacelf]

It’s a pretty good bet that if a technical person is being secretive, they’re a fraud. I’ve seen that movie way too many times in all sorts of industries. It happens time and time again.

Look at Tesla for the opposite.

They’ve been patenting all sorts of interesting things related to battery cells. They have two defenses for their technology. One is that many of their patents show something but don’t say specifically how to mass manufacture it. Good luck trying to figure out how to mass manufacture the tabless cell.

Their second defense is that Tesla will manufacture these inventions in such huge volume (be by far the number one manufacturer of these inventions) that they don’t care if someone else uses them.

 

[Tessaract]

It's ...

Quite unrelated to this thread, but your "cosmacelf" handle brings back memories from the start of my EE career... yours too, I suspect. COSMAC was the first CMOS µP commercially available, which had to be programmed in assembly language. And stored programs on audio cassette...

 

[Cosmacelf]

Quite unrelated to this thread, but your "cosmacelf" handle brings back memories from the start of my EE career... yours too, I suspect. COSMAC was the first CMOS µP commercially available, which had to be programmed in assembly language. And stored programs on audio cassette...

Yes indeed, but I was 13 at the time, so not quite the start of my degree

You might have used audio cassettes but I used a cross assembler on an ibm mainframe output to punch cards which I then read into my Elf using a home built punch card reader. Ie a wooden board with side rails with nine phototransistors in the bottom, with a 100 watt light bulb up top. One of the rows was a clock row. Punch card movement supplied by the human. I think the punch card reader program was about 40 instructions that you had to enter by hand of course. Fun times!

 

[Cosmacelf]

It’s a pretty good bet that if a technical person is being secretive, they’re a fraud. I’ve seen that movie way too many times in all sorts of industries. It happens time and time again.

Look at Tesla for the opposite.

They’ve been patenting all sorts of interesting things related to battery cells. They have two defenses for their technology. One is that many of their patents show something but don’t say specifically how to mass manufacture it. Good luck trying to figure out how to mass manufacture the tabless cell.

Their second defense is that Tesla will manufacture these inventions in such huge volume (be by far the number one manufacturer of these inventions) that they don’t care if someone else uses them.

Oh, and I forgot Tesla’s third defense against stealing secrets. It’s the one that Elon preaches. Just innovate faster than everyone else. Just let your competitor use your old technology while you beat them with your latest technology.

 

[Tessaract]

Yes indeed, but I was 13 at the time, so not quite the start of my degree

You might have used audio cassettes but I used a cross assembler on an ibm mainframe output to punch cards which I then read into my Elf using a home built punch card reader. Ie a wooden board with side rails with nine phototransistors in the bottom, with a 100 watt light bulb up top. One of the rows was a clock row. Punch card movement supplied by the human. I think the punch card reader program was about 40 instructions that you had to enter by hand of course. Fun times!

Fun times, indeed. When the complexity of a program was measure not in MB of memory, but in boxes or pounds of punched cards. I guy I knew wrote a 2-box program (about 40 lbs of cards), and was venerated like a god...

 

[MC3OZ]

LG Chem has succeeded in flying at high altitude with a lithium-sulfur battery for the first time in Korea - sUAS News - The Business of Drones

Especially, EAV-3 flew in the altitude of 22kms, which is unprecedented for a domestic unmanned aircraft, and achieved a new record of flying at the highest attitude in the stratosphere in Korea. Also, it flew for 7 hours out of a total of 13 flight hours with a stable output in the stratospheric altitude of 12-22km where a general aircraft cannot fly.

LG Chem plans to demonstrate a long-endurance flight that lasts more than a number of days by producing additional trial products of lithium-sulfur batteries in the future. Moreover, it plans to mass-produce a lithium-sulfur battery that has an energy density more than twice that of the present lithium-ion battery after 2025.

 

[MC3OZ]

Williams and Oxis take lithium-sulfur battery tech to the high seas

Oxis and Williams now turn their sights from the air and race course to the open sea in collaboration with Singapore's Yachts de Luxe (YdL). Using Oxis' ultralight lithium-sulfur cell technology, Williams will assemble the 400-kWh battery pack and battery management system for the new 40-foot (1`2.2-m) luxury day boat, to be designed by YdL director Jean-Jacques Coste. The battery system will power the 40-footer to a planned cruising range between 70 and 100 nautical miles (130 and 185 km).

The new lithium-sulfur-powered electric day boat will make its debut at the 2021 Monaco Yacht Show next September.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Any idea of the cost relative to what is used in EVs?

 

[spokey]

Fun times, indeed. When the complexity of a program was measure not in MB of memory, but in boxes or pounds of punched cards. I guy I knew wrote a 2-box program (about 40 lbs of cards), and was venerated like a god...

Was at AT&T in the early seventies. IBM 360 MFT machines I think. We regularly had to read in trays that were about 2 1/2 - 3 feet long. Might have been a couple boxes. Not sure which was the biggest fear. Dropping the tray or having a mis-read in the middle of loading them.

I was pretty darn good on the old IBM 029(?) keypunch. Didn't get into assembly language until the Apple/ATARI stuff (6502?) came along.