It's NOT 'zero-sum'!!

[nwdiver]

This is the key point that protectionists and nationalists miss when they support tariffs and oppose immigrants. This isn't a zero sum game.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The video seems to emphasize _knowledge_, and argues for greater global distribution of wealth in order to increase global levels of education, in order to increase human productivity.

Knowledge can be spread without importing goods and labor. See protectionism in Chinese car manufacturing.

 

[nwdiver]

Knowledge can be spread without importing goods and labor. See protectionism in Chinese car manufacturing.

You need a vibrant economy to promote education => knowledge. There are winners and losers in free trade but the losers are temporary and the winners are permanent.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

You need a vibrant economy to promote education => knowledge. There are winners and losers in free trade but the losers are temporary and the winners are permanent.

China has a vibrant economy with massive protectionist measures and relatively little immigration.
Japan was also successful without much immigration.

 

[nwdiver]

Japan was also successful without much immigration.

Depends on how you define 'success'.

It's the aggregate. The point is that more open borders and free trade leads to far better aggregate results globally than tariffs and restricted immigration.

If a trade deficit of $25B creates $30B in economic activity that's a net win. The real creation of wealth is making the pie bigger. Not keeping more of it for yourself. Immigration makes the pie bigger. Tariffs make it smaller.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Depends on how you define 'success'.

View attachment 287486

Japan is an economy that depends on exports. It has been overwhelmed by the Chinese juggernaut. But note that Japan became wealthy _without_ immigration.

I'll repeat that China is very much a protectionist nation and has limited immigration. There's no K1 equivalent (long-term permits for persons married to Chinese do not allow the spouse to work), permanent residence permits are only available to high-level talent and there's extremely restricted naturalization.

Despite the restrictions, China has grown rapidly. Significant immigration is not necessary for growth. What's (currently) required is _labor_. Developed nations have low birth rates that have led to a reduction in the workforce. Western developed nations have used immigration to fill the shortage. What would the world do if all nations were developed with low birth rates?

It's the aggregate. The point is that more open borders and free trade leads to far better aggregate results globally than tariffs and restricted immigration.

If a trade deficit of $25B creates $30B in economic activity that's a net win. The real creation of wealth is making the pie bigger. Not keeping more of it for yourself. Immigration makes the pie bigger. Tariffs make it smaller.

You seem to be arguing that those who are protectionist or who support immigration control do not want to see economic growth in other countries and simply want to hold on to current wealth. I do not believe that that is true. I'm certain that people would be happy to keep what they have and see others gain. The key concern is being dragged down by competition with low wages and poor working conditions.

While you use the video to for free trade and free movement of labor, it could equally be used it to argue for debt relief and foreign aid.

_Knowledge and technology_ are what increases productivity.