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It's on: Oil versus Electric

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It's an ironic twist that Huff Post buried this article in its "Green" section--an example of the very sort of media bias that Lelani discusses. Great article, Lelani!

Excellent point. Until the media and those in power stop shuttling all of this aside into the "green" corner and recognize that these are front and center solutions necessary for survival of civilization as we know it nothing will change.
 
All other companies got bailouts at some point or another but Tesla only got a DoE loan which they paid back, 9 years in advance, for 465 M which includes the 25 M in interest. Yet... Tesla is the bad guy for stealing 7 500 from taxpyers every time someone buys one :tongue:
 
Last week, I read an article about a two vehicle accident in San Diego County where someone driving fast in a BMW and ploughed into a couple of guys in a larger pickup truck, sending both vehicles careening down an embankment and into a parking lot. The BMW driver was unconscious and I theorize (because he was partially ejected from the vehicle) not wearing a seatbelt. Cars were ablaze and gasoline was all over. The BMW driver must have suffered a serious head injury if it caused unconsciousness. A severe accident with a petrol vehicle sounds horrendous. It also sounds like if you manage to get the car upside down and jostle a hose loose, that's all it takes to light the fire. For a Tesla to catch itself on fire, you have to penetrate the battery pack, which is armored.

I'm postulating long-term here. NASCAR races where the chance of a roll-over is 6% and it is highly unlikely that the vehicles will catch on fire. All you hear are tires, and all you smell is rubber. I'd enjoy it, but would the media stop airing races if it was so much safer, cleaner, and quieter?
 
Is Tesla really the only American car company to fully pay back their government loan? Not Ford, GM or Chrysler? Was Tesla not affected by the Auto Industry Crisis of 2008-2010?

Agree, I don't believe the original claim is true. Technically GM paid their loan back. Meanwhile the government took stock in the new GM and eventually sold it at a loss.

Lee Iacocca paid back the previous Chrysler guaranteed loan.

I suspect Tesla didn't need their loan as badly as politicians needed to "buy into" a success. Hence the early payoff.
 
Agree, I don't believe the original claim is true. Technically GM paid their loan back. Meanwhile the government took stock in the new GM and eventually sold it at a loss.

Lee Iacocca paid back the previous Chrysler guaranteed loan.

I suspect Tesla didn't need their loan as badly as politicians needed to "buy into" a success. Hence the early payoff.

i disagree. a lot of the loan was written off in bk. as a citizen, i am pissed to hear someone brag about them paying back a loan of which a large part was written off. also have to wonder how chrysler owned by fiat qualifies as an american company.
 
i disagree. a lot of the loan was written off in bk. as a citizen, i am pissed to hear someone brag about them paying back a loan of which a large part was written off. also have to wonder how chrysler owned by fiat qualifies as an american company.

I'm clarifying for Chickenlittle. The Tesla loan was paid off IN FULL with interest and NONE written off. The GM loan is the one that had write-offs. Someone is going to misunderstand post and start myth.

Disagree with N4HHE, the US loan was very valuable money to Tesla as it came before IPO. Subsequently, IPO raised money, and shortly after that quarterly profitability began, which all enabled payoff. But govt. investment certainly helped during pre-IPO days. My guess anyway.
 
http://useconomy.about.com/od/criticalssues/a/auto_bailout.html

Here is a detailed breakdown of the bailout. The ATVM loan program is not discussed though. Ford got $5.9 billion from that and will still be paying it back for the next 25 years.

The US government has written off the outstanding amounts of GM and Chrysler and so they don't technically owe the US taxpayer.
Yah and ironically the 3 recipients of ATVM loan program were Tesla at half a billion, Ford at 6 billion, and then NISSAN at 1.5 billion. Tesla paid off, the others won't for a decade.
Many of the people who ignorantly carp about Tesla and government money are the same people who would claim to support "made in the USA". Surprised they're not proud to have a successful new US car company! Just shows that other stigmas (tree huggers must be commies, environmental science is wrong) and "drill baby drill" mentality is thicker than national pride.
 
Yah and ironically the 3 recipients of ATVM loan program were Tesla at half a billion, Ford at 6 billion, and then NISSAN at 1.5 billion. Tesla paid off, the others won't for a decade.
Many of the people who ignorantly carp about Tesla and government money are the same people who would claim to support "made in the USA". Surprised they're not proud to have a successful new US car company! Just shows that other stigmas (tree huggers must be commies, environmental science is wrong) and "drill baby drill" mentality is thicker than national pride.
You also have to wonder what Ford did with all that money, because it surely wasn't to build the C-Max Energi or Focus Electric.
 
EcoBoost!

Yeah, I'm disappointed too. I really LIKED the Fusion electric...nice looks and great steering feel...until I pressed down on the accelerator and got jerked around and wailed at. And later, when I looked at the Roadster-sized trunk on that huge car. What a shame, they could have done something really nice.
 
You also have to wonder what Ford did with all that money, because it surely wasn't to build the C-Max Energi or Focus Electric.

It was an Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing loan program. It wasn't about EVs or even fuel cells. As long as the money was used to advance technology then you were good.

All that sounds good but the reality of the entire program was to save Ford from filing for bankruptcy like GM and Chrysler. Congress designated $25 billion to save Ford and the political selling point was to allow "anyone" to possibly get access to the loan. That's what gave Tesla and Fisker the opportunity to get a loan. Nissan got a little bit to advance the Leaf as long as they spent the money in the USA. Ford used the money to redesign their engines and the factories to build those new engines to make them more competitive in the world market. So, as ChadS mentioned, you got ECOBOOST and a whole new line of competitive cars.
 
I'm glad I could spark an interesting discussion concerning the auto manufacturers' loans. Whether Tesla is the only one or not, Elon Musk and Tesla Motors are a miracle in the oil-dependent auto industry.

However, Tesla had something that those other companies don't--a car worth purchasing.
A car worth purchasing for those who have the money.
 
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Great article. Also loved the picture of you rubbing your Model S's butt :biggrin:

2013-12-11-EffOilBorder1_sm.jpg
 
I don't think it is really about Oil vs. Electric. We know how that ends, either electric wins outright, or oil runs out and electric wins. The question is whether electric can take over quickly enough to avoid massive climate damage. We have already done significant damage to the environment, but it hasn't reached the point that it will cause populations to collapse. If we keep burning fossil fuels at our current rate, we may put the world into a state where it can only support a few billion people, which means starvation, thirst, and very likely war. Even if we are wrong about the effects on the climate, if we fail to develop electric vehicles and susteinable energy production, gas prices will start to climb, and climb quickly. The effects on our economy and on world politics could be pretty bad, the longer we wait to switch the bulk of our systems off of fossil fuel, the worse it will be.

At first glance, it seems pretty clear that starting work on EVs and sustainable energy right away is in every bodies best interest. But the oil companies have a vested interest in keeping the world hooked on oil, as the prices climb, so do their proffits. As the environment collapses, our needs for fuel will increase, we will need more power to keep our cities livable and produce food and clean water, and the oil companies will make money. As oil runs out, the price will rise, and they will make money.

It isn't really in their best interest to pursue this strategy, their actual value as a company will have decreased, as the value of all industry will decrease. A collapse of the climate means more work for less reward, and while the oil industry has a bigger piece of the pie, the pie is smaller. If instead they took a longer term perspective, they could transition into sustainable energy, and have a similarly percentage of the pie, but the pie could continue to grow.

The question isn't whether oil or electric will win in the end, but whether our electric cars will travel through toxic air to abandoned cities, or through healthy air to bustling centers of culture and commerce.
 
Great article, This is the reason I invested in Tesla in Aug 2012 at $28.20 a share when they were producing cars at 5 cars a week, before they announced the supercharger network, and before they were profitable. Cant want to buy a Tesla when I sell my shares!

LoL... You were the smart one!

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Thanks for the kind words. Getting some other types of feedback as well: on TeslaMotors.com forum some are calling me a conspiracy theorist, looking for connections "under rocks" that are not there. LOL. I am happily embracing my tin foil hat. ;)

Conspiracy Theory? by Leilani Munter, Race car driver, environmental activist. | Forums | Tesla Motors

WoW... She lurks amongst us :redface:
Great Article!