It's the Batteries, Stupid!

[JRP3]

I think the way to market EV's is to have different levels of battery pack. You have the base model with 50 mile range, then 100, then 200, etc. Design it so that range upgrades in the future aren't too difficult. The pack in my conversion will cost around $4K including shipping from China and across the US to my door and give me between 30-40 miles of range, all I need. I'm sure there are others with similar needs who would be happy with a $15-$20K 50 mile range EV who don't feel like making their own.

 

[TEG]

Hitachi To Increase Battery Production To 70 Times Its Current Output - AllCarsElectric.com

 

[TEG]

DailyTech - Auto Industry Transforms as Automakers Pair With Battery Makers

 

[Mark Petersen]

lithium air

Well I hope that lithium air will be available for the Model S.
only problem is that it will take a 2 days to recharge the battery, but range would be 3000 miles

Technology Review: Waterproof Lithium-Air Batteries
Air-fuelled Battery Could Last Up to 10 Times Longer

maybe an even future option is lithium H2O
to save weight TM need to replace the cooling fluid with saltwater

 

[johnr]

^ Sounds very impressive ... and with that kind of range, who cares how long it take to charge:biggrin:

 

[Serge]

Lithium-Air batteries have their own topic.

 

[dpeilow]

Green Car Congress: Stanford Researchers Take Another Approach to Silicon Anodes for Li-ion Batteries with Carbon-Silicon Core-Shell Nanowires

 

[vfx]

Green Car Congress: Stanford Researchers Take Another Approach to Silicon Anodes for Li-ion Batteries with Carbon-Silicon Core-Shell Nanowires

Di not understand much in this piece. I just have to tell myself, It's the batteries, Stupid!



:redface:

 

[dpeilow]

After Gutenberg » Is Lithium Cobalt Oxide Still in the Running?

Link to company: OGRON BV - Energy storage: News

That really is good enough for more than 310 miles (~500km). Should be interesting.

Yeah, we should folow up on the EVent in Long Beach. Tesla might send someone...

Advanced Automotive Batteries

Did anything come of this?

 

[vfx]

Samsung and Bosch to put $409 million into SB LiMotive battery plant

Samsung and Bosch to put $409 million into SB LiMotive battery plant — Autoblog Green

The company has big plans, hoping to grab nearly a third of the automotive battery market by mid-decade. Bosch is the biggest automotive supplier in the world and produces parts for almost every automaker.

 

[Serge]

The Car Battery Race: Showing Favorites? | BNET Auto Blog | BNET

In the meanwhile, Imara (also located in Menlo Park) launched their first product, high-power 18650 lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide cells.

Cycle performance, while perhaps not as impressive as AltairNano's, is supperior to common LiCo chemistry. Energy density parameters of 350 Wh/L, and a gravimetric density of 135 Wh/kg are also pretty impressive given such high cycle life. Cost?

 

[johnr]

^ So that's at 140 F, a fairly high operating temperature for Li cells - and now I wonder who "competitor E" is, LOL

 

[Serge]

As a followup to my previous post, I recalled a really good overview of current lithium-ion chemistries in Jeff Dahn's presentation at IBM Almaden Institute 2009.

“In our opinion, the cathode materials can be ranked from most safe to least safe in the following order LiFePO4, Li[Ni1/3Mn1/3Co1/3]O2, Li1+xMn2-xO4, LiCoO2, Li[Ni0.7Co0.2Ti0.05Mg0.05]O2, LiNi0.8Co0.2O2, LiNiO2.”
D.D. MacNeil et al. - Journal of Power Sources 108, 8–14, (2002).
Adding Al to Li[Ni1/3Mn1/3Co1/3-zAlz]O2 improves the safety even more!

To sum up, this chemistry has capacity parameters close to that of lithium-cobalt-oxide, better power capacity (hello quick-charge), safety close to that phosphates (A123) and better than titanates (AltairNano), and improved cycle life.

Now, as far as cost is concerned, there is potential for cost reduction as far as raw materials are concerned. Here are some prices for metals ($/lb)
Cobalt 43.25
Manganese .86
Nickel 7.87

 

[dpeilow]

French and U.S. firms ally for electric car batteries | MNN - Mother Nature Network

Preliminary agreement reached between French industrial group Dassault and U.S. Dow Kokam for a new kind of lithium battery.

 

[TEG]

EETimes.com - E-car battery price on rapid declining curve, expert predicts

 

[TEG]

Mention of A123's big IPO probably belongs in this thread too.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/battery-discussion/1455-ipo-anyone-a123-files-ipo.html
A123 Surges in First Day on Electric-Vehicle Demand (Update2) - Bloomberg.com

 

[JRP3]

EETimes.com - E-car battery price on rapid declining curve, expert predicts

Currently, the price level for lithium ion batteries is around 1000 euros (about $1480) per kWh

Really? I don't think it's anywhere near that, LiFEPO4 that I can purchase are already below $500.

 

[dpeilow]

"Volkswagen, Varta Forming JV to Develop Advanced Batteries for Electric Vehicles" Green Car Advisor

I wondered when Varta would get into bed with the German manufacturers.

 

[dpeilow]

Li-Ion Battery Breakthrough: Silicon Nanotubes Boost Capacity 10x : TreeHugger

 

[Serge]

Li-Ion Battery Breakthrough: Silicon Nanotubes Boost Capacity 10x : TreeHugger

So what's better, a silicon nanowire or these nanotubes? What's easier to make in mass production?