It's the Batteries, Stupid!

[dpeilow]

Zinc air at $165 / kWh

Predicting the Electric Vehicle Adoption Curve | The Energy Collective

 

[rolosrevenge]

But what is the energy density of it? Is it compact enough for mobile applications?

 

[cinergi]

A company called Eos Energy Systems, headquartered in New York City with manufacturing facilities in Easton, PA is soon to release its rechargeable zinc-air solution at $165 per kilowatt-hour – about one-quarter of the current price for lithium ion. That, IMO, is the end of the line for the internal combustion engine.

Technology Summary | Eos Energy Storage

Other batteries need to hold a large amount of cathode reactant, equivalent to pulling a trailer full of air to oxidize the tank of gasoline in your car. Zinc-air batteries have higher energy density since they—like gasoline engines—use oxygen from ambient air as a reactant, and therefore do not need to carry it in the cell.

Not seeing actual density numbers. There's a bunch of PDFs on their site ...

 

[dpeilow]

Same tech Very Promising! Zinc-Air Battery Could Hold 300% More Energy Than Lithium-Ion : TreeHugger

 

[JRP3]

This is odd from the PDF:

Eos Corona Advanced Lead Acid Battery ... In combination with Eos zinc-air battery for range, lighter weight for comparable power and energy makes Eos Corona suitable for powering electric vehicles

With a cheap and energy dense zinc air battery why would you need to combine it with lead acid for EV's?
http://www.eosenergystorage.com/download/Eos_Tech0611.pdf
Maybe Zinc air has low C rates?

 

[TEG]

Haven't we been hearing great things about Zinc-Air for a long time? Why isn't anyone really using it yet in an EV application?

::: LEO MOTORS :::

http://www.lboro.ac.uk/departments/...-of-power-sources-for-mobile-applications.pdf

...3.9.3 METAL-AIR BATTERIES
A generation of metal-fuelled batteries that sit between fuel cell and conventional battery
technology is emerging. Fuelled by particulate metals, such as zinc, iron or aluminium, these
batteries offer greater energy density than current technology. For example, zinc-air batteries
are under development which use oxygen from the atmosphere as the negative electrode
reactant. Holes in the battery casing allow air to react with a powered zinc positive electrode
through a highly conductive potassium-hydroxide electrolyte. Zinc-air batteries can be stored
almost indefinitely, providing they do not come into contact with air. This means that they have a
much longer shelf life than standard batteries.
eVionyx Inc. is developing a new zinc-based battery called the Revolutionary Power Cell (RPC).
To use zinc as a fuel (aluminium, magnesium and other metals can also be used), abundant
zinc ore is converted to low-cost zinc metal. Within the RPC, energy is extracted from the zinc
as it is electrochemically converted to zinc oxide. The battery can work in four modes:
disposable, refuelable, rechargeable, and RefRec (refuelable and rechargeable). AER Energy in
the US has also developed a zinc-air prototype battery for use in Nokia's 5100, 6100 and 7100
mobile phones. The battery is said to enable the phones to be used up to four times longer in
talk mode. The company has also patented an air-distribution system which should increase
battery lifetime by controlling the rate at which air reaches the active area of the battery...

http://www.g3src.org.uk/downloads/G4WPB-Toyota-Part1.pdf

...Zinc air is one system that offers great promise for
the future, although it is uncommon in cylindrical
sizes. It is a variation of the Leclanche cell having a
zinc anode but taking air from the atmosphere via a
catalyst to act as the cathode. This system has a
potential energy 50% greater than the alkaline
battery at 1.4 volts with a flat discharge curve. The
difficulties with this system are three fold: how to get
sufficient oxygen from air into the cell at high rates of
discharge, how to stop the liquid electrolyte seeping
out through the air holes and how to stop an adverse
reaction between the electrolyte and the carbon
dioxide in the air.A derivation of this is a hybrid cell
half-alkaline half zinc air. A smaller proportion of
manganese dioxide supports the discharge reaction in
the short term and the recovery period between
discharges allows the manganese dioxide to reoxidise
with oxygen from the air...

 

[donauker]

This is odd from the PDF: With a cheap and energy dense zinc air battery why would you need to combine it with lead acid for EV's?http://www.eosenergystorage.com/download/Eos_Tech0611.pdfMaybe Zinc air has low C rates?

Yes, extremely low. According to the document they indicate a .17 C rate. They specify 17 KW/100 KWh modules. You would need a 1000 KWh battery to provide 170 KW of power!

 

[JRP3]

I guess that's why they are targeting megawatt storage solutions. They are no where close to working in an EV. I suppose you could couple them with a high C rate pack of A123 or Altairnanos for peak loads, but that kills their cost an energy density benefits.

 

[Norbert]

Yes, extremely low. According to the document they indicate a .17 C rate. They specify 17 KW/100 KWh modules. You would need a 1000 KWh battery to provide 170 KW of power!

Maybe that would work for a long-haul truck.

 

[dpeilow]

Yes, extremely low. According to the document they indicate a .17 C rate. They specify 17 KW/100 KWh modules. You would need a 1000 KWh battery to provide 170 KW of power!

You don't need 170 kW, a third of that with supercapacitor buffer would suffice. Still big, but getting more realistic.

In fact if you restricted top cruise speed to 80 mph it would be nearly 200 kWh and lighter than the Roadster battery.

 

[JRP3]

I don't see the point in using super caps when high C rate batteries such as A123 and Altairnano are available with greater energy density. A cap bank with enough energy for more than a few seconds of output will be big, heavy, and expensive. Accelerating up a large hill will require more than a reasonable sized bank of cap can provide if the main pack isn't up to the task on it's own.

 

[dpeilow]

Super cap or battery, doesn't really matter (and wasn't the point). Although, graphene super caps get as good energy densities as lithium titanate. And a small battery in a buffer application is going to see thousands of cycles.

 

[JRP3]

Although, graphene super caps get as good energy densities as lithium titanate.

I did not realize they had progressed that far.

 

[Eberhard]

ultracaps can handle more then 500.000 deep cycles. ideal as burst buffer, 4-10sec.

 

[dpeilow]

Even if you need a buffer for 5 minutes of 60kW and then a main Zinc-Air battery for ~200 kWh / 30kW it would be under 500kg.

 

[Norbert]

Green Car Congress: GM awards A123 Systems production contract for batteries for future EVs

GM is committed to offering a full line of electrified vehicles, each of which calls for different battery specifications. We work with a variety of battery developers and A123’s advanced Nanophosphate lithium ion technology offers ideal performance capabilities for a future electrified vehicle application.

—Micky Bly, GM’s executive director - Global Electrical Systems, Infotainment and Electrification

(Emphasis mine)

 

[Norbert]

More info here:

GM Taps A123 For EV Battery Pack Production - AutoObserver

 

[Norbert]

From the above article:

Neither Forcier or Kelly would disclose any of the specific product information or brand information at this time, but Kelly confirmed Forcier's assertion that the contract involves "tens of thousands" of battery packs annually. The contract includes advanced nanophosphate cells and fully integrated electronic components such as controllers and thermal regulators. "The specific vehicles and brands will be announced at a later date," the companies said in a statement. But a well-placed source at GM said the battery pack will power a full battery-electric vehicle, one like a Nissan Leaf or a Tesla Roadster, as opposed to a plug-in hybrid electric vehicle, such as the Chevrolet Volt.

 

[TEG]

Sounds like welcome news...

 

[JRP3]

Make me even happier I bought more AONE the other day on the drop before the news :love: