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J1772 Charging for the Tesla Roadster

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by tomsax, Sep 14, 2010.

  1. richkae

    richkae VIN587

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    The Roadster display shows voltage and amps when charging, some HPCs are 208 and some are 240 and thats handy to know.
     
  2. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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    The third party apps will be able to feed back this kind of data to the OpenChargeMap database... it should be easy for future developers to add support for automated data capture because the database is open.
     
  3. dwegmull

    dwegmull 2013 Model S 85

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    Well, after much procrastination, I spent some quality time in my workshop and built a compact adaptor. The result is less than 10" long.
    IMAG0313.jpg
    I consider this a prototype due to its limited current capability. After checking the UL and code ratings for wires, I feel confident that it will handle 24A.
    I built it mainly as a topic of conversation, hopping to motivate others (are you listening, TM?) to build one "properly".
    More pictures of the construction can be found here:
    http://wegmuller.org/v-web/gallery/J1772?page=1 (the gallery has two pages)

    Enjoy!
     
  4. tomsax

    tomsax Member

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    That looks great! Nice work! I'd love to have one of those for doing charging station demos, it's much nicer than the hack I've been using.

    One bit of caution. As I understand it, the black cup to which the Tesla inlet is mounted is glued to the body panel. I've heard from a couple of owners who have had that cup come unglued. I don't know if that's due to an unusual manufacturing issue where the glue didn't hold, or if it's a design problem. One possible issue with the compact adapter design is that it increases the torque arm on that cup and could pop the inlet cup loose.

    Fortunately, the Level 2 J1772 chargers I've used (two instances of the same Coulomb unit) have pretty light cables. So perhaps the 30A charging stations with light cables won't be any worse with the compact adapter than the heavier HPC cable and the standard Tesla plug.

    I kind of expected we'd have heard from Tesla about their adapter by now. Maybe they are having an engineering problem, the cup coming loose or something else.

    I still holding out hope that they'll come through with a full conversion option that put an end to the adapter silliness.
     
  5. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    Echo Tomsax's comments; looks great!

    I do hope that the inlet isn't glued as this solution nicely holds the cable away from the side of the car. One concern I have is placing a cable that's been dragged on the ground collecting grit against the car.
     
  6. ChargeIt!

    ChargeIt! Member

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    Handi-wipes kept in trunk just for that purpose ?
     
  7. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    I always keep my cables "floating" off the ground for that reason. The compact adaptor is very cool.

    If the plug is just glued in the car then why don't we jut pop them all off and put J plugs in the cars? Adapters should always be the most cumbersome for the least available plugs which will quickly become Tesla's.
     
  8. tomsax

    tomsax Member

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    You definitely don't want to pop that mounting cup off from the body panel. I've heard getting it glued back in the properly aligned position is quite troublesome.
     
  9. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    5th way

    I thought of a 5th way to deal with this: Tesla converts the car to J1772 and then sells Tesla female to J1772 male adapters.

    As we found, you can't convert a Tesla HPC or Mobile charger to J1772 as that invalidates the tested-as-a-whole UL certification as soon as you snip the wire but, if they UL certified the Tesla female-to-J1772-male they could sell those to all current owners transforming all current chargers AND any Tesla roadside chargers that already exist over there on the West Coast.
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    During the Nissan Leaf drive tour they were showing the J1772 and said "previous generation EVs failed because they had no standard charge connector."
    "Now things are different because we have one standard that everyone is using... The Leaf uses it, the Volt uses it, the Tesla Roadster uses it..."
    I was surprised, as it was one of the few factual details they got wrong in their presentation.
     
  11. tomsax

    tomsax Member

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    I did some research on this when a local outfit was having problems with an HPC inspection because it lacked the proper UL sticker. I decided to go straight to the source and spoke with someone at Clipper Creek who explained that the HPC is not UL certified because the Tesla plug hadn't been through the process. The Clipper Creek box is certified, but not after the Tesla plug had been added.

    I've heard the HPCs they are shipping now are UL certified, or something equivalent, but older HPCs aren't. Mine certainly doesn't have a UL sticker on it.

    So swapping the cable on my HPC won't change its status. YMMV.
     
  12. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    Interesting; I got my info from the MINI e program. As people have been returning their cars, BMW have been leaving the HPCs. When asked why, BMW said that they were unusable as any modification rendered them no longer UL certified.

    Tom has a pile of HPCs that could be converted to Tesla compatible units if we have the plugs. Sounds like a good upgrade for a spare 120v unit.

    At the beginning of the MINI e program there was a hold up as the units weren't UL certified or rather they were but it was thrown into question by some guy; big conspiracy actually, rumours that he was an oil company plant and more!

    I'm surprised that Tesla could actually sell on non certified unit. How do you suppose they got around that?
     
  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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  14. dwegmull

    dwegmull 2013 Model S 85

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    Someone on our local owner's mailing list (SF Bay Area) mentioned that he talk with a Tesla employee that told him they are done designing a Tesla to J1772 adapter and are currently testing it. It is a cable long enough so the J plugs are on the ground. No word on price and wether it can be locked to the car.
    I hesitate to say this here but the same source indicated that this cable would be available for ordering "next week".
     
  15. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    Tesla HPC's are fully UL and CSA certified.

    You can legally install a device without certification if you get an approval from the local power authority. Since there is a charge for each unit, that is only ever done for for (usually custom) products that are sold in very small quantities.

    If you don't have certification then you can "get away with it" especially if you're selling direct. Usually you only get caught if someone complains (usually a competitor), you import into another country and customs bounces it, or if you try to sell through a distributor who bothers to check these things. If none of those things happen, it would probably never come to light unless you electrocuted someone or started a fire. Needless to say I am not recommending selling something without proper certification!
     
  16. mpt

    mpt Electrics are back

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    Ha, should have patented the design... no wait, it'd all roll up to TomSax.

    Do you think theirs will look as quality as mine inside?

    J1772 test - cable.JPG J1772 to Tesla finished.JPG J1772 to Tesla open.JPG
     
  17. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    #97 Lloyd, Feb 3, 2011
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2011
    As the charging infrastructure progresses I see two types of charging emerging J1772 thorough the normal AC 240 system to 75 amps., and Fast Charging using CHAdeMO 600 V DC connections.

    1. Do you think that the Tesla S will come equipped with both J1772 connections and a fast charge DC option?

    2. Will someone devise a way to adapt the CHAdeMO connector to the Roadster?

    3. Do you think that a "blended" connection will emerge, allowing both types of charging with a single connector?
     
  18. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    Checking the specs for the ITT Cannon J1772 75A plug (www.ittcannon.com/uploadedFiles/Product_PDFs/RZ_J1772_low_res.pdf) it says that the strain relief on the cable is rated at IP44 ingress protection. This means it is only splash proof.

    That's ok if the plug is in the side of a car and being rained on, but not a good idea if it is left on the ground and one returns to find it half submerged in a puddle. I see trouble ahead...
     
  19. Kevin Sharpe

    Kevin Sharpe Active Member

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    In the US I think you may see the majority of J1772 deployments limited to ~30A to keep down the total installation costs. You will see 75A systems but they will be in the minority IMO.

    In Europe we have VDE-AR-E 2623-2-2 ("Mennekes"), Framatome, Scame and the CEEplus connector... mainland Europe has a lot of 3 phase for which J1772 is unsuitable.

    My hope is that the CHAdeMO DC connector gains traction and everyone adopts that standard. I really don't want to see a repeat of the current AC connector 'war'.

    I doubt that Tesla will release DC or 3 phase support for the Roadster. However, once cars start coming out of warranty you will see lots of aftermarket products that add features such as a CHAdeMO connector. I really like the idea of a portable AC to CHAdeMO charger... something that could accept any 1 or 3 phase AC supply.
     
  20. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    @Lloyd and KS: We have umpteen threads on various other types of connectors and which is best in different markets, so please keep this on topic - namely the specifics of official or unofficial adaptors and mods for J1772 on the Roadster.


    I was using the ITT 75A connector as an example of what a J1772 plug ingress rating is and the potential for shorting or shock hazard if used on the ground in bad weather.

    The same is true of the Yazaki 30A plug, which is NEMA 3S rated so also raintight but no more.

    If it is true that Tesla's solution is a flying lead that puts the J1772 join on the ground by the car, they probably need to think again.
     

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