TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker and becoming a Supporting Member. For more info: Support TMC

Jack up the fees please!!!!

Discussion in 'North America' started by tomas, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,563
    Location:
    Chicago/Montecito
    IMG_2887.JPG so I stop off at Oxnard because I need a charge to continue from LA to Santa Barbara and I see this... every car empty. How many are actually traveling, and how many are just out for a Sunday shop at the mall??? I guess I've read about this plenty, but my first such experience. I'm sure some are legit, but not all. People are jerks.
     
    • Like x 7
    • Helpful x 1
    • Informative x 1
  2. tinkoo604

    tinkoo604 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Are you saying some of these cars are not even plugged in.
     
  3. tomas

    tomas Traded in 9 rep bars for M3, used to be somebody!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,563
    Location:
    Chicago/Montecito
    All plugged in as far as I could see. Problem is that most (if not all) of them were locals out for Sunday afternoon at the mall, and because they have a Tesla and because there are super chargers there, they plugged in. Not because they need a charge. While there I saw 5 spots change hands. Every departure was people with full shopping bags. Every arrival was people who immediately lit out for the mall... some of them with empty reusable cloth bags.


    Very crappy idea to put super chargers at malls.
     
    • Like x 7
    • Informative x 3
  4. diesel

    diesel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Australia
    Malls are probably a good place to put destination chargers not superchargers. Superchargers should be along major arterial roads with some sort of convenience nearby (cafe, rest rooms).
     
    • Like x 8
    • Informative x 1
  5. beths11

    beths11 THE LONG RANGER

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    Molalla, OR
    I went shopping at Cabazon outlets (I-10 Cabazon, CA)the other day. Didn't need a charge so parked in the lot, but same scenario at the superchargers.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  6. CSFTN

    CSFTN Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2014
    Messages:
    615
    Location:
    Memphis, TN
    As they go back and infill, I hope Tesla avoids placing more Superchargers at shopping malls. To be true to mission and minimize opportunity Supercharging, they really should be in travel centers, truck stops, etc.

    That said, the fees for idling, and the relative decrease in the proportion of Tesla which have unlimited Supercharging should both help.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Love x 1
  7. Sonny Daze

    Sonny Daze Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2016
    Messages:
    790
    Location:
    DC
    I think it was a good idea early on to get people on board, but obviously the situation has changed in LA/SF areas. There have been statements from Tesla about adding more stalls to problematic locations, but that seems to me that it would just encourage more of this behavior. Maybe closing those stations and moving existing stalls to new locations would be better. Not sure if they have any commitment to businesses that would prevent them from doing this.
     
  8. tinkoo604

    tinkoo604 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2017
    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Maybe it would be a good idea for tesla to make the tesla app be able to communicate with other tesla owner.
     
  9. bhzmark

    bhzmark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2013
    Messages:
    1,545
    fee model might backfire. Causing people to think: I'm paying for it, so I can stay there as long as I want.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  10. Haxster

    Haxster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2016
    Messages:
    516
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    And to those who use these for local charging (and don't necessarily linger past the end of the charge): "I paid for lifetime SC when I bought the car. So I may as well take advantage of it whenever I can."
     
    • Like x 2
  11. grichard

    grichard Member De-Luxe

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2015
    Messages:
    199
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    This may be true for the charging fee. I suspect that if I had a Tesla without unlimited charging, I might not feel guilty about SC'ing locally, figuring that I was paying Tesla what they asked.

    The idle fee, on the other hand, is pretty high. I suspect that it will deter most people from leaving their cars parked at chargers after they're done charging.
     
  12. DrivingRockies

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Messages:
    245
    Location:
    US
    Just pass the fee amount to the guy waiting :).
     
  13. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    5,119
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    You mean like a mall?
     
    • Funny x 8
    • Informative x 1
    • Like x 1
  14. diesel

    diesel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Australia
    Explicitly not at a mall. A rest stop with facilities and food. Stop, plug in, go to the bathroom, have a bite to eat and a coffee... then on your way.
     
  15. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,571
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    I think some SCs they should charge for plugging in, idling or not.

    Basically keep all highway SCs free but charge for the ones that are in the malls and downtown and such.
     
    • Like x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Funny x 1
  16. beths11

    beths11 THE LONG RANGER

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2013
    Messages:
    498
    Location:
    Molalla, OR
    So the Cabazon Outlet Mall is right off the freeway, their chargers ARE highway supercharges.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. diesel

    diesel Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Messages:
    110
    Location:
    Australia
    Yes..Agree it is a mall. Never disputed that fact.

    I am saying I don't think this is the optimal solution. There is a high risk of ICEing and use contrary to intention (long distance travel) when you place a supercharger in a mall. By all accounts a supercharger stall costs ~40k, having them misused is a waste of capital that could be used to build out the network where there is a need.
     
  18. Reeler

    Reeler 7th Year of Pure EV

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2015
    Messages:
    899
    Location:
    Mountain West
    The idle fees should double each hour if folks are waiting. Those that owe more than $100 should lose the ability to use any SuperChargers until the penalties are paid. Put a credit card form into the Nav Unit so folks can start charging again immediately when needed.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Love x 1
  19. bob_p

    bob_p Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Messages:
    1,562
    It appears the primary goal for the idle and charging fees is to encourage more effective use of the installed superchargers, increasing availability to more owners.

    If the $.40/minute idle fee isn't enough to get people to quickly disconnect, Tesla will likely change the policy.

    Doubling per hour may not be ramping the costs up fast enough to have much impact - they'll need to increase the charge rate faster.

    Perhaps something like: $.40/minute for the first 15 minutes (with the charge waived if moved in the first 4 minutes), $1.00/minute for the next 15 minutes, $2.00/minute for the next 15 minutes, and $5.00/minute after that. And if cars are left for more than an hour, supercharger privileges are suspended for 30 days.

    If someone did leave their car connected for an hour - that would be $125 for the first hour, $300 for each hour after that, plus the risk of losing access to the superchargers for a month.

    That should provide enough incentive to move in the first 5-15 minutes...

    I also wouldn't be surprised for Tesla to rescind the "idle fee only when busy" policy, because Tesla doesn't have any way to track which charging spots are actually available. Any spots that are ICEd, not working, or have their access blocked - can't be detected by Tesla. Plus, they really need to get everyone trained to charge - and disconnect quickly.

    Another area where they might change the charging policy is to discourage charging for more than what is needed. Since it takes much longer to charge from 90-100%, they could increase the charging fees as the battery gets closer to 100%, to discourage drivers from staying connected longer than they need.

    The initial idle/charging policy should be viewed as a prototype, and that we'll see changes to the program as Tesla gets more experience on what is needed to get owners to use the superchargers effectively.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Disagree x 2
    • Love x 1
  20. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,571
    Location:
    Plano, TX
    Agreed on all points.
     
    • Like x 1

Share This Page