Jack up the fees please!!!!

[callmesam]

Look, it is silly and impossible for someone to demand they show their proof of residence if we have need to infer they are local or not. Sometimes you make an inference, based on the decades of experience you have observing people and events. And 99% of the time you are right. If you see someone wearing a burka they are most likely not a native from Ireland. If you see a bunch of cars plugging and the driver gets back with milk and other groceries atleast some of them may not be locals.

You can keep asking, 'how do you know?, what evidence do you have? did you check their govt issued ID? even then did you run their IDs against the govt database to see if they are valid,...". Or you can make an inference even if you can't get those 'valid under the court of law' evidences.

All I can say is that you are wildly overestimating percentage of times that you guessed correctly.

And please feel free to provide the clues I should be looking for. It is not obvious to me, who has made 200 Supercharging visits, the purpose of a visit. Other than I'm confident that they need electricity.

 

[jeffro01]

Read what callmesam wrote in post #169. Imho that sums it up perfectly.

Except their wrong... Especially in this example... 'jchag' isn't using it because he can't charge at home, he's using it because he WON'T charge at home... There is a huge difference there...

Jeff

 

[jeffro01]

I will make another confession. I charge my 60D to 100%. I know I'm supposed to only charge to 90% and the car even reminds me of that. I have read lots of post from the TMC community and I believe my car will be OK. I apologize now to the owners of 40K, 60K (non software limited), 75K, 85K, 90K, and 100K owners who cannot utilize that last 10% in their car on a regular basis.

LOL... Do you really think any of us cares about what you do with your battery? Nope. Now the vindictive person in me hopes you abuse it to the point of Tesla denying you any warranty relief for the reduced range your going to see eventually but beyond that, although I can't remember if the 60D is a software limited 75 which changes the equation a bit... None of us here care what you charge to.

I presume your post was intended to elicit some sort of visceral response, most likely from me... Eh...

Jeff

 

[Electroman]

Except their wrong... Especially in this example... 'jchag' isn't using it because he can't charge at home, he's using it because he WON'T charge at home... There is a huge difference there...

Why this seemingly simple straightforward point seems to be lost on AustinPowers & callmesam is beyond me.

jchag has the audacity to show the picture of his HPWC with a comment, "lies unused". D**k is a fair characterization.

 

[jchag]

LOL... Do you really think any of us cares about what you do with your battery? Nope. Now the vindictive person in me hopes you abuse it to the point of Tesla denying you any warranty relief for the reduced range your going to see eventually but beyond that, although I can't remember if the 60D is a software limited 75 which changes the equation a bit... None of us here care what you charge to.

I presume your post was intended to elicit some sort of visceral response, most likely from me... Eh...

Jeff

Your right, just trying to show how stupid this thread has become. We see things differently an neither of us is going to change. I admit get a little laugh out of how angry people get because I admit to charging locally. I'm willing to bet 75% on these boards have charged at a SC within 25 miles of their home if they have one that close. I talk to people at the superchargers and the majority I talk to are local. Granted the 99 isn't the superhighway like Interstate 5, and we get a lot less travelers. My whole goal was to say local charging isn't the devils work. I value my time and would not wait in line nor hog a charger that is in high demand, but if I can get free charging while enjoying lunch, latte, or shopping I will. Jeff lets eliminate the name calling and just agree we see things differently on this subject.

John

 

[bonnie]

Your right, just trying to show how stupid this thread has become. We see things differently an neither of us is going to change. I admit get a little laugh out of how angry people get because I admit to charging locally. I'm willing to bet 75% on these boards have charged at a SC within 25 miles of their home if they have one that close. I talk to people at the superchargers and the majority I talk to are local. Granted the 99 isn't the superhighway like Interstate 5, and we get a lot less travelers. My whole goal was to say local charging isn't the devils work. I value my time and would not wait in line nor hog a charger that is in high demand, but if I can get free charging while enjoying lunch, latte, or shopping I will. Jeff lets eliminate the name calling and just agree we see things differently on this subject.

John

While you may find it amusing to observe the visceral reactions, consider that this group has seen things change for the worse because Tesla saw the need to put controls in place to deal with people abusing what was offered.

AP has nags now because of some of the really uncool videos posted when first released. Supercharging has more limitations because people didn't use it as it was intended. All fall under the category of 'This is Why We Cannot Have Nice Things'.

I'm kind of on the fence regarding your usage. It's always been for long-distance travel (and not going to argue it with anyone, over it), but you don't appear to be inconveniencing anyone. But your attitude about it and your fellow Tesla owners? Really uncalled for.

 

[tomas]

I don't really have any heartburn with locals charging. Mostly because I know I will be in that situation in the future. We are planning to move back to Texas and may be living in an apartment for 6-12 months while we buy a house. I will try to find an apartment with a garage and 120v power, but that might not be possible. In that eventuality I will be one of the "problems". If a supercharger is more convenient to me than a DC fast charger that I have to pay for, then, yes, I will be using the supercharger.

I won't leave my car past charging or anything, but I would wait in a line because I will need the charge just as must as the long distance travelers.

I have actually already had to use my "local" supercharger up in Mojave once because I went down to the Burbank SC in the morning, ran a bunch more errands before work and wasnt sure if I would make it home in below freezing temps after work. So I swung into the Mojave SC for 20 minutes to get enough buffer for my drive home.

Sometimes locals do need SCs too.

Right. And I don't know if it was all clear in my original post, but I am a local within 50 miles of that SpC. I was coming off 200+ mile trip and needed a boost to have buffer for remaining 40 miles. Just like your Mohave example.

People have taken this thread a lot of directions. Personally, I have NO problem with locals charging when needed at start or end of trip. I also have great sympathy for apt and condo dwellers who have tried their best but can't install at home, though I sure hope they would get to know their local chargers and go during slow periods. What I have no patience for is people who are local, have home charging, and plug in either: 1) to get free electrons, 2) even though they dont really need it for rest of day's activity, 3) neglected to charge prior night at home, and or 4) leave car charging beyond 80% (dirt slow part of taper).

 

[Az_Rael]

3) neglected to charge prior night at home

Well, I am sure someday I will be in this boat and having to charge at Mojave to get to work. Twice I forgot to plug my Volt in when I had it, and once my husband forgot when he drove my car. I haven't done it yet with the Tesla, but I am sure I will (I have to charge daily for my commute)

Yes, the other types are annoying (and I would add taxi drivers to the list), but now that new cars will be paying, it will slowly take care of itself over time for most of these cases.

 

[AustinPowers]

Except their wrong... Especially in this example... 'jchag' isn't using it because he can't charge at home, he's using it because he WON'T charge at home... There is a huge difference there...

Jeff

Of course there is a difference, and I don't deny that one shouldn't regularly charge at a local SC when one has the ability to charge at home. Plus, I won't contest that this specific user is behaving in a manner that is a) more than questionable and b) surely not typical of the majority of Tesla drivers. At least the ones I know personally are a very different kind of person than this one.

Perhaps my arguments got a bit misunderstood in that respect, but all I wanted to agree with him was that using a local SC isn't "abusing" the system per se. Sure, the way he goes about the whole thing, as I said above, is at least questionable. But as bonnie also said, he doesn't seem to inconvenience other users of the system, plus he seems to charge there while doing something else along the way, not driving there specifically just to charge and then head home again (which as many have pointed out would be quite stupid/unnecessarily time consuming/etc). In that respect I can still agree with his line of thinking - but in that respect only, I should stress!

 

[jchag]

View attachment 212473 so I stop off at Oxnard because I need a charge to continue from LA to Santa Barbara and I see this... every car empty. How many are actually traveling, and how many are just out for a Sunday shop at the mall??? I guess I've read about this plenty, but my first such experience. I'm sure some are legit, but not all. People are jerks.

Just noticed only nine cars charging in a 10 stall charger. Guess you didnt have to wait long.

 

[Ulmo]

I think it was a good idea early on to get people on board, but obviously the situation has changed in LA/SF areas. There have been statements from Tesla about adding more stalls to problematic locations, but that seems to me that it would just encourage more of this behavior. Maybe closing those stations and moving existing stalls to new locations would be better. Not sure if they have any commitment to businesses that would prevent them from doing this.

That's pretty expensive. I recommend an approach that leverages the existing expensive mall installations in-situ:

They could open up nearby "SuperChargers" that are not at malls, close the mall "SuperChargers", change the paint on the charger pedestals, reopen them as "Destination Chargers", and charge $0.30/kWh + $5/hour parking for them, regardless of when you bought your Model S, X, 3, Y, etc.

But, that might mean nothing in a year or two when all the chargers are 400kW or more, and our slow 99kW SuperChargers are scoffed at as simply slow mall destination chargers, that take a whole 1 hour to fill a battery!

 

[Ulmo]

Look, it is silly and impossible for someone to demand they show their proof of residence if we have need to infer they are local or not. Sometimes you make an inference, based on the decades of experience you have observing people and events. And 99% of the time you are right. If you see someone wearing a burka they are most likely not a native from Ireland. If you see a bunch of cars plugging and the driver gets back with milk and other groceries atleast some of them may not be locals.

You can keep asking, 'how do you know?, what evidence do you have? did you check their govt issued ID? even then did you run their IDs against the govt database to see if they are valid,...". Or you can make an inference even if you can't get those 'valid under the court of law' evidences.

A lot of us have been ballyhooing that Tesla ought to enforce some sort of reasonable resistance to excessive local charging use. That is a difficult program to implement. But, they made a decision and implemented it. It's basically over: the cars sold after January 15, 2017 will charge money for SuperCharging. Everyone before is just a "legacy cost". The SuperChargers that are congested today with excess local charging will probably have a similar level of congestion in the future from those same cars (with grandfathered free SuperCharging), since everyone else will be paying.

Also, if people are paying for their use, that means more money will be available to build more chargers that will alleviate the legacy costs and usage patterns. The solution will work out.

 

[dsm363]

Your right, just trying to show how stupid this thread has become. We see things differently an neither of us is going to change. I admit get a little laugh out of how angry people get because I admit to charging locally. I'm willing to bet 75% on these boards have charged at a SC within 25 miles of their home if they have one that close. I talk to people at the superchargers and the majority I talk to are local. Granted the 99 isn't the superhighway like Interstate 5, and we get a lot less travelers. My whole goal was to say local charging isn't the devils work. I value my time and would not wait in line nor hog a charger that is in high demand, but if I can get free charging while enjoying lunch, latte, or shopping I will. Jeff lets eliminate the name calling and just agree we see things differently on this subject.

John

Yeah, the way you flaunt what you are doing says a lot. You have the right to refuse to charge at home and use the Superchargers but seems like an odd use of time. Most people value their time at more than $3 an hour that you save by not charging at home when you can. It's the equivalent of not charging your cell phone at home because you know you can do it at work. I have better things to do with my time that go to the local Supercharger twice a week when I don't have you. Others may not.

If you don't have charging at home or drive so much that day you need to use the Supercharger close to home that is of course fine and the reason they are they in addition to aiding long distance travel. Those comments are not directed to those people. If you have a HPWC or 14-50 sitting in your garage and you purposely don't plug in then I think you should re-evaulate your position.

 

[jchag]

Yeah, the way you flaunt what you are doing says a lot. You have the right to refuse to charge at home and use the Superchargers but seems like an odd use of time. Most people value their time at more than $3 an hour that you save by not charging at home when you can. It's the equivalent of not charging your cell phone at home because you know you can do it at work. I have better things to do with my time that go to the local Supercharger twice a week when I don't have you. Others may not.

If you don't have charging at home or drive so much that day you need to use the Supercharger close to home that is of course fine and the reason they are they in addition to aiding long distance travel. Those comments are not directed to those people. If you have a HPWC or 14-50 sitting in your garage and you purposely don't plug in then I think you should re-evaulate your position.

It's funny all the rules ou put on my time. #1 maybe charge once a week, usually shop or eat while charging. I would probably shop or eat the same amount of time even if I wasn't charging. I don't "flaunt it". I am just stating a fact. Most people on TMC that charge at a local SC wont admit it because of all the name calling they will receive. I frankly don't care what an anonymous person on board has to say about me. It's funny I read about people attaching puddle lights to their non PUP cars or connecting the auto hatch lift, Guess what, why aren't people complaining that those wiring harnesses were intended for the upgrade and the owners are stealing from tesla when they don't pay for the PUP upgrade, but hack the car to get the benefits of the upgrade. I didnt hack anything, the "unlimited supercharging was clearly purchased with the vehicle and I use it.

You might as well say that a Tesla can exceed the speed limit, but the intention was you shouldn't, unless injured and rushing to a hospital or some other event that several members of this board make up.

Let's see, Oh you can use the local supercharger if you are coming home from a long trip and need extra charge to make it.

You can use local supercharger if you don't have a 14-50

You can use the local supercharger if you don't have a HPWC

By the way I have never asked anyone to charge locally, if you don't want to fine, just get off my ass!

 

[jmanning]

I admittedly haven't read EVERY post on this feed, BUT WHEN WILL COMPANIES LEARN THAT BY PUTTING IN ELECTRIC CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE IN CALIFORNIA THEY WILL GET MORE BUSINESS....MORE = MORE $$$$ = BETTER FOR THEM......instead of relying on having superchargers. Malls, movie theatres, restaurants, all these would gain by having this infrastructure !!!!!!!!!

 

[jmanning]

I live in Mass by the way where supercharging is NEVER a problem....

 

[jchag]

I admittedly haven't read EVERY post on this feed, BUT WHEN WILL COMPANIES LEARN THAT BY PUTTING IN ELECTRIC CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE IN CALIFORNIA THEY WILL GET MORE BUSINESS....MORE = MORE $$$$ = BETTER FOR THEM......instead of relying on having superchargers. Malls, movie theatres, restaurants, all these would gain by having this infrastructure !!!!!!!!!

Agreed, I'm the perfect example

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

I admittedly haven't read EVERY post on this feed, BUT WHEN WILL COMPANIES LEARN THAT BY PUTTING IN ELECTRIC CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE IN CALIFORNIA THEY WILL GET MORE BUSINESS....MORE = MORE $$$$ = BETTER FOR THEM......instead of relying on having superchargers. Malls, movie theatres, restaurants, all these would gain by having this infrastructure !!!!!!!!!

Would they?

Each car would occupy a charger for a significant amount of time.
Unless managed, a person can plug in and charge and not be a customer of the business.
There are significant costs to installation.
The kWh cost.
Use during periods of other peak demand would add demand charges.

As more businesses install chargers, chargers become less of a differentiator.

I can absolutely understand why most businesses are not in any rush to install. The economics of chargers suck.

 

[dsm363]

It's funny all the rules ou put on my time. #1 maybe charge once a week, usually shop or eat while charging. I would probably shop or eat the same amount of time even if I wasn't charging. I don't "flaunt it". I am just stating a fact. Most people on TMC that charge at a local SC wont admit it because of all the name calling they will receive. I frankly don't care what an anonymous person on board has to say about me. It's funny I read about people attaching puddle lights to their non PUP cars or connecting the auto hatch lift, Guess what, why aren't people complaining that those wiring harnesses were intended for the upgrade and the owners are stealing from tesla when they don't pay for the PUP upgrade, but hack the car to get the benefits of the upgrade. I didnt hack anything, the "unlimited supercharging was clearly purchased with the vehicle and I use it.

You might as well say that a Tesla can exceed the speed limit, but the intention was you shouldn't, unless injured and rushing to a hospital or some other event that several members of this board make up.

Let's see, Oh you can use the local supercharger if you are coming home from a long trip and need extra charge to make it.

You can use local supercharger if you don't have a 14-50

You can use the local supercharger if you don't have a HPWC

By the way I have never asked anyone to charge locally, if you don't want to fine, just get off my ass!

I live less than 10 miles from one and have gone there maybe twice in a year. I actually plug into my 14-50 each night though because as I said, I have better things to do with my time. It just seems odd you'd purposely not plug in at home to save a few bucks a week. All the examples you gave are fine uses of local Supercharger. Even every now a then if you're in the area and just want some free juice maybe but you willfully not plug in each night when you paid to have a HPWC installed in your garage just seems cheap. It's your right but you bragged about it then can't take the criticism.

 

[brucet999]

They'll know if there are multiple Tesla's at the supercharger location not charging and having not charged which can only mean the stalls that aren't charging either don't work or are blocked so they can't be accessed.

Do you think that Tesla can track locations of the entire fleet and drill down to determine how many are at a SC site and not charging?

It has taken 4 years just to get info on the number of stalls actually in use, a far easier data set to gather and process.