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Jag gets in on the "EV's don't have to look stupid" Market.

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Here is an informative article demonstrating the current challenges in using CCS charging for a 350 mile trip from San Jose to LA in a Chevy Bolt, including the author's conclusion:


Chevy Bolt EV: 800-mile trip in 238-mile electric car shows challenges remain

The CCS charging infrastructure needs to improve dramatically for the i-Pace and Q6 to be able to be driven more than 200 miles in a day without significant inconvenience.

No doubt.

Then again, where I live, work and spend my time, I could not get a similar distance covered in a Tesla either. The network(s) just are not sufficient yet to reasonably do that, unless I happen to want to go down very specific corridors at significant effort, which I personally have no reason to do... When I got my Tesla, there were no Superchargers at all, anywhere within its range.

Very few places in the world are like California. And a lot of people still wanted a Tesla there too, before Superchargers appeared.

But the thing is, none of that matters, because what matters to me - and I wager there are plenty of people like me who are interested in EVs at this stage - is home/work charging and large battery to handle my daily/weekly driving. That is a market the Bolt can easily cater to and any 2018 premium EVs as well. Plenty of potential there for these initial cars, I think...

Assuming they are otherwise appealing cars, of course. Bolt is a bit iffy in my books, probably too lowkey for its price... I-Pace and e-tron quattro, those I expect to be appealing cars.
 
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Well my take from now actually seeing the car is it is very nice in the metal. The way the top of the grille actually is a diversion channel under the front portion of the hood is neat way to accomplish the balance of brand identity against aero concerns. So yes it's form over function, but I think it's been dealt with intelligently, and actually adds a nice piece of hidden detail if you look closely enough (and from a low enough vantage point you can see right the way through).

It is the same all over to be honest, lots of nice touches, it's crisp, and well proportioned. Next to the Range Rover Velar (which in truth was getting more visitor attention), it clearly isn't a true SUV style, if anything it's a sort of cross between a Golf/Focus style hatch and an Evoque. For me though it pulls off a new segment you may consider as an SUVBack, without looking weird. (Who remembers how the BMW X6 took some getting used to at launch.)

It's definitely a smaller footprint to the Model S, which is no bad thing in Europe. We will have to wait and see how this translates into the interior space.

Interestingly Magna (the firm building the IPace) were also exhibiting, in their case a prototype REX EV, that used a fuel cell. (Not sure that's a good idea btw, but it was interesting to see they are investing R+D in the EV space).

As for the dates, I was assured 2018 to the UK market by JLR.

One take away from the show was almost without exception every manufacturer had a charge point somewhere on their stand. EV'ification is definitely gaining pace, albeit with PHEV's being by far the most represented.
 
No doubt.
But the thing is, none of that matters, because what matters to me - and I wager there are plenty of people like me who are interested in EVs at this stage - is home/work charging and large battery to handle my daily/weekly driving. That is a market the Bolt can easily cater to and any 2018 premium EVs as well. Plenty of potential there for these initial cars, I think...
I'm in that camp.

Assuming they are otherwise appealing cars, of course. Bolt is a bit iffy in my books, probably too lowkey for its price... I-Pace and e-tron quattro, those I expect to be appealing cars.
This really did surprise me about the Bolt (Ampera-e). The interior is far too full of plastics that would be more at home in a VW Up! or similar budget city cars :(

Conversely the Hyundai Ioniq was far nicer inside than I was expecting.
 
Well my take from now actually seeing the car is it is very nice in the metal. The way the top of the grille actually is a diversion channel under the front portion of the hood is neat way to accomplish the balance of brand identity against aero concerns. So yes it's form over function, but I think it's been dealt with intelligently, and actually adds a nice piece of hidden detail if you look closely enough (and from a low enough vantage point you can see right the way through).

It is the same all over to be honest, lots of nice touches, it's crisp, and well proportioned. Next to the Range Rover Velar (which in truth was getting more visitor attention), it clearly isn't a true SUV style, if anything it's a sort of cross between a Golf/Focus style hatch and an Evoque. For me though it pulls off a new segment you may consider as an SUVBack, without looking weird. (Who remembers how the BMW X6 took some getting used to at launch.)

It's definitely a smaller footprint to the Model S, which is no bad thing in Europe. We will have to wait and see how this translates into the interior space.

Interestingly Magna (the firm building the IPace) were also exhibiting, in their case a prototype REX EV, that used a fuel cell. (Not sure that's a good idea btw, but it was interesting to see they are investing R+D in the EV space).

As for the dates, I was assured 2018 to the UK market by JLR.

One take away from the show was almost without exception every manufacturer had a charge point somewhere on their stand. EV'ification is definitely gaining pace, albeit with PHEV's being by far the most represented.

Big thanks for the report, @smac! And it sounds like you had a great trip. :)

I especially enjoyed the tidbit about a partly functional grille.
 
thanks for the video post.

In isolation or from certain angles possibly. However it's a lot bigger car.

Here it is with a context of scale:

4.-Jaguar-I-Pace.jpg

Here it is on the move (under it's own power which isn't always the case with concept cars).


There is even a camo spec production version running around on UK roads:

Jaguar I-Pace: first pic of production-spec electric SUV | Autocar


It looks very much to me like JLR are serious about this car arriving in H2/2018, and personally I am pretty tempted for it as a replacement for my Model S when it's warranty coincidentally expires.

Now if they can stick to the F Pace + 10-15% pricing, that is the biggest unknown right now.

Of course it won't suit everyone, the lack of charging network being the key omission, but as I 100% home charge that's no big problem.
I think I-Pace is a very nice, and muscular-looking car.

Why is it left-hand drive? Are they planning to sell all of them on the Continent and NA?
 
Why is it left-hand drive? Are they planning to sell all of them on the Continent and NA?

No idea, I was surprised the "production-spec" one was wearing UK number plates but was LHD. (The concepts not so much as they were being exhibited in LHD countries).

The only thing I can think of is it's being produced in Austria by Magna, maybe that's where they will do the bulk of the testing?
 
Here is an informative article demonstrating the current challenges in using CCS charging for a 350 mile trip from San Jose to LA in a Chevy Bolt, including the author's conclusion:


Chevy Bolt EV: 800-mile trip in 238-mile electric car shows challenges remain

The CCS charging infrastructure needs to improve dramatically for the i-Pace and Q6 to be able to be driven more than 200 miles in a day without significant inconvenience.
By the time the iPace and Q6 are actually available, that trip and most others in California will be very much improved. Both the State of California through the California Energy Commission grants and the VW Dieselgate settlement through Electrify America will have installed a significant number of 50kW to 320kW charging stations by the end of 2018 or middle of 2019. We may even see the North-South Corridor grants built out by the end of 2017.

Future CEC DC Fast Charge Sites
 
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By the time the iPace and Q6 are actually available, that trip and most others in California will be very much improved. Both the State of California through the California Energy Commission grants and the VW Dieselgate settlement through Electrify America will have installed a significant number of 50kW to 320kW charging stations by the end of 2018 or middle of 2019. We may even see the North-South Corridor grants built out by the end of 2017.

Future CEC DC Fast Charge Sites
Yes it will be possible to travel I-5 when the ChargePoint installations are complete. The issue is that 4 of the 5 locations have only a single charger, and the fifth has two. So the very early buyers of the iPace and Q6 should have a good experience, but what happens if these cars are successful?

I took my first Model S trip from San Jose to LA in January 2013. It was VIN 463 and had been delivered two months prior, so there weren't very many Teslas on the road. At that time Harris Ranch had a single charger, and Tejon Ranch had 4 or 6. No problem on the way south, but on the return trip the other Tesla at Tejon Ranch finished charging 10 minutes before me and beat me to Harris Ranch. I waited 45 minutes to start charging. That is what happens when you have a single charger that people actually use. Of course Tesla remedied this problem later in 2013 and has done a second expansion so now there are 13 chargers available.

From the beginning Tesla has planned and provisioned for success with their Supercharger network. They have risked quite a bit of capital in doing this because they had to. Without volume sales of the Model S Tesla would have died. Under no such urgency, the other manufacturers are depending on 3rd parties, and these 3rd parties are depending on government funding. Chargepoint got a $700K grant from California for their installation along the Central California corrider. Who will provide the money for a phase 2 after lines form at the single chargers?

Like @AnxietyRanger keeps pointing out, these big battery cars can be purchased by people who only charge at home or at work and journey no farther than a 100 mile radius. To extend that use case you need a robust charging network. It will be interesting to see how VW provisions the charging locations they are forced to build because of Dieselgate.
 
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I'm in that camp.


This really did surprise me about the Bolt (Ampera-e). The interior is far too full of plastics that would be more at home in a VW Up! or similar budget city cars :(

Conversely the Hyundai Ioniq was far nicer inside than I was expecting.

You are actually buying a ~64kWh battery and 150kW drivetrain that hits 150kmh in ~1000m. How much is that option in the Hyundai or Leaf or BMW i3? Unless you put JATO bottles on those other cars and bring a tow rope with you, they aren't going to hang.
 
You are actually buying a ~64kWh battery and 150kW drivetrain that hits 150kmh in ~1000m. How much is that option in the Hyundai or Leaf or BMW i3? Unless you put JATO bottles on those other cars and bring a tow rope with you, they aren't going to hang.

@McRat You may want all those numbers. Who am I to judge.

Personally I just want a nice well built car, that looks attractive, fast enough, whilst doing my part in improving local air quality in my city.

To date the Tesla has been the only one that has ticked the boxes.

I have subsequently put a deposit down on the I-Pace, and frankly that decision is partly on Tesla.

The X's doors are too gimmicky, life's too short to buy a car that looks nigh on identical to my old Model S, and the service levels (and build quality) have been dire.

I know this won't win me many friends with TSLA holders, but I hope you appreciate the honesty. (Which I will also apply when the Jaguar appears, and I'll try my best to give a straight comparison.)
 
Yes it will be possible to travel I-5 when the ChargePoint installations are complete. The issue is that 4 of the 5 locations have only a single charger, and the fifth has two. So the very early buyers of the iPace and Q6 should have a good experience, but what happens if these cars are successful?

I took my first Model S trip from San Jose to LA in January 2013. It was VIN 463 and had been delivered two months prior, so there weren't very many Teslas on the road. At that time Harris Ranch had a single charger, and Tejon Ranch had 4 or 6. No problem on the way south, but on the return trip the other Tesla at Tejon Ranch finished charging 10 minutes before me and beat me to Harris Ranch. I waited 45 minutes to start charging. That is what happens when you have a single charger that people actually use. Of course Tesla remedied this problem later in 2013 and has done a second expansion so now there are 13 chargers available.

From the beginning Tesla has planned and provisioned for success with their Supercharger network. They have risked quite a bit of capital in doing this because they had to. Without volume sales of the Model S Tesla would have died. Under no such urgency, the other manufacturers are depending on 3rd parties, and these 3rd parties are depending on government funding. Chargepoint got a $700K grant from California for their installation along the Central California corrider. Who will provide the money for a phase 2 after lines form at the single chargers?

Like @AnxietyRanger keeps pointing out, these big battery cars can be purchased by people who only charge at home or at work and journey no farther than a 100 mile radius. To extend that use case you need a robust charging network. It will be interesting to see how VW provisions the charging locations they are forced to build because of Dieselgate.
The North-South Corridors Grant (GFO-15-601) awarded ChargePoint 8 sites on the I-5 corridor from Lathrop to Valencia with only 1 DCFC each. On my map linked above, you can turn off the pins by funding group. I agree with you that 1 DCFC per site is not enough. The later Interregional Corridors grant funded many more sites with 2 DCFC per site. I would love to know what their justification was for only funding half of 1 DCFC per site. I suspect that the Commission believes that once they seed that corridor that it will become self-supporting and that private entities will see return on future expansions since the site utility capacity was already funded up front. In addition, now that we've seen ChargePoint's new Express Plus hardware and they've said that the grant sites will get that new hardware, I expect that they will not install single chargers. I expect that they will install a power-sharing pair of chargers. That is 62.5kW per station which can be combined to 125kW if there is only one car charging. The sharing can be switched at the 31.25kW (78 amp) module level. However, I may be wrong and they will initially only install one station at these important sites. That will be a shame.

Electrify America has stated that their Long Distance Highway Fast Charge sites will have a minimum of two 125kW stations and two 320kW stations. Larger sites would have three of each type. That is a much more viable site configuration that drivers could actually depend on.
 
The North-South Corridors Grant (GFO-15-601) awarded ChargePoint 8 sites on the I-5 corridor from Lathrop to Valencia with only 1 DCFC each. On my map linked above, you can turn off the pins by funding group. I agree with you that 1 DCFC per site is not enough. The later Interregional Corridors grant funded many more sites with 2 DCFC per site. I would love to know what their justification was for only funding half of 1 DCFC per site. I suspect that the Commission believes that once they seed that corridor that it will become self-supporting and that private entities will see return on future expansions since the site utility capacity was already funded up front. In addition, now that we've seen ChargePoint's new Express Plus hardware and they've said that the grant sites will get that new hardware, I expect that they will not install single chargers. I expect that they will install a power-sharing pair of chargers. That is 62.5kW per station which can be combined to 125kW if there is only one car charging. The sharing can be switched at the 31.25kW (78 amp) module level. However, I may be wrong and they will initially only install one station at these important sites. That will be a shame.

Electrify America has stated that their Long Distance Highway Fast Charge sites will have a minimum of two 125kW stations and two 320kW stations. Larger sites would have three of each type. That is a much more viable site configuration that drivers could actually depend on.
Thank you for posting the link to the planned charge sites map and the tip on turning off groups. A couple of questions - hopefully not too OT since this is how the i Pace can road trip in CA.

- Are the single DCFC ChargePoint (and Recargo US 101) locations a dual-headed charger with both CCS and CHAdeMO?
- Are the dual DCFC NRG locations on I-5 north of Sacramento one each of CCS and CHAdeMO?
 
Thank you for posting the link to the planned charge sites map and the tip on turning off groups. A couple of questions - hopefully not too OT since this is how the i Pace can road trip in CA.

- Are the single DCFC ChargePoint (and Recargo US 101) locations a dual-headed charger with both CCS and CHAdeMO?
- Are the dual DCFC NRG locations on I-5 north of Sacramento one each of CCS and CHAdeMO?
My recollection of the CEC documents was that every initially funded charger should be dual head CCS and CHAdeMO (or dedicated chargers for each connector with the pair still only counting as one) and at least 50kW nominal power. The site should have transformer capacity for at least 125kW beyond what was initially funded with conduits stubbed out to a pad where additional charger(s) could be installed. I expect the NRG sites that are funded will be their typical Freedom Station format with two dual chargers, hopefully ABB 120-125 amps instead of the BTC 100 amp units. I suspect that the BTC units will not be used because those are usually not run with dedicated utility transformers, but are typically piggy-backed on existing grocery / hotel / big box store 120Y208V power.
 
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ChargePoint's new Express Plus hardware
Uhoh:

https://www.chargepoint.com/files/datasheets/ds-expressplus.pdf says ChargePoint's Express Plus supports this: "CHAdeMO, CCS1 (SAE J1772™ Combo), CCS2 (IEC 61851-23), GB/T (20234.3-2011 DtC)". Are any of those equal to the Tesla connector? They support "Up to three different connector types per station". Where can this be discussed, because my query is not related to Jaguar?


Skimming that real fast, that looks like a much more natural layout of charging spots than we currently have.
 
Uhoh:

https://www.chargepoint.com/files/datasheets/ds-expressplus.pdf says ChargePoint's Express Plus supports this: "CHAdeMO, CCS1 (SAE J1772™ Combo), CCS2 (IEC 61851-23), GB/T (20234.3-2011 DtC)". Are any of those equal to the Tesla connector? They support "Up to three different connector types per station". Where can this be discussed, because my query is not related to Jaguar?

Skimming that real fast, that looks like a much more natural layout of charging spots than we currently have.
Discuss it here:
Chargepoint Express Plus: First true Tesla Supercharger competitor 400KW