Jaguar I pace preview yesterday

[Olle]

Went to I pace preview yesterday wow what a stunning car. Same price with some extras as my S75D £74k fantastic range of colours Tesla watch out you will defiantly lose sales to jaguar.
The I Pace web site has been thought out perfectly so you can order on line now and the car is a perfect size for uk roads.
What I saw yesterday is a tesla killer Elon has to pull something out of the bag before loosing sales to Jaguar.

I-Pace looks very similar shape and size wise to the e-Golf. It should take some sales from e-Golf, from the more upscale buyer that VW doesn't have an EV for, and some from the traditional Jaguar ICE buyers. Model S is for someone who wants the ultimate car. Sorry Jaguar.

Good thing Jag is coming out with an EV though! It will help Tesla through EV awareness and infrastructure.

 

[McRat]

...
I still don't understand why Jag thought a marketing campaign targeting Tesla was the best starting point.
...

The iPace is significantly more money than it's ICE variant. People see EVs priced at under 1/2 what the iPace will sell for.

So why chose the iPace? 'EVs' cost 1/2 as much, so that's a lot for badging. To the masses, all EVs taste like chicken. You want to sell filet mignon to them.

So they needed something to justify its price to people unfamiliar with EVs.

Right now, the only EV option widely available that is more expensive is the Tesla Model S/X.

So comparing it to the Teslas is the only way to justify the markup from their ICE version.

 

[Peteski]

Because the I-Pace is much better than the F-Pace. A potential F-Pace customer would see that I-Pace and think WOW, it's so much better, then see the delivery time and maybe go on to buy a Tesla. They only have a very limited amount planned for production, so the wait list is going to be long. Much better for them to target Tesla customers, as they will steal from a competitor while preserving their current sales. Does this make sense?
Basically, they are sold out for the next couple of years, and they need more F-Pace sales

If demand for the iPace greatly outstrips supply (as it might well do) then it could actually lead to even more Tesla X and S sales in the short term. If I was hypothetically in the market for an iPace, but I couldn't get into one for over a year, I might be tempted to take a Tesla instead of a crappy old-fashioned FPace. All it needs is for people to get wowed by the powerful EV drivetrain on an iPace test drive. Then if they can't actually get one any time soon, they might just try out a Tesla and discover that those have amazing powerful EV drivetrains too! The iPace has certainly increased awareness of EVs among the more conservative drivers.

 

[Peteski]

I-Pace looks very similar shape and size wise to the e-Golf.

Well I suppose they both have 4 wheels and 5 seats and both are EVs. But I think that's about as close as they get to each other!

 

[McRat]

Civic - 177" L x 71" W x 55" H
eGolf - 168" L x 71" W x 57" H
iPace - 184″ L x 75″ W x 61″ H

 

[Olle]

I forgot to add the medical grade filtration system, which I think is a great feature too. No other car I've driven has kept all the farming smells and pollen out of the car so effectively. It's not that other high end cars don't have HEPA and carbon filters, but none seem to do it on the scale Tesla have.

Love this feature for so many reasons. Awesome with clean air and one of the juicy smackdowns to ICE cars.

 

[Olle]

Civic - 177" L x 71" W x 55" H
eGolf - 168" L x 71" W x 57" H
iPace - 184″ L x 75″ W x 61″ H

Ok, iPace is 9% longer, 6% wider and 7% taller, but the dimensional relationship of the car itself only deviates 3 % units from the e-Golf, that's why they look so similar from the corner of your eye.

Sure, most new SUVs look like scaled up 1970s hatchbacks from afar. But because the iPace not only proportioned as a hatch but is also small in absolute terms, for an SUV, it blends more with compact hatches for me.

 

[McRat]

Ok, iPace is 9% longer, 6% wider and 7% taller, but the dimensional relationship of the car itself only deviates 3 % units from the e-Golf, that's why they look so similar from the corner of your eye.

Sure, most new SUVs look like scaled up 1970s hatchbacks from afar. But because the iPace not only proportioned as a hatch but is also small in absolute terms, for an SUV, it blends more with compact hatches for me.

Just eyeballing, that's ~25% larger in total volume?

 

[SSonnentag]

i-Pace cargo volume is 20% less than a Model S and 41% less than a Model X. It's not an SUV in my opinion, only a car with more ground clearance than average, sort of like a Subaru Forrester. Charging speed is less than half that of the Tesla as well. Wait, no autopilot? Deal breaker.

 

[cizUK]

i-Pace cargo volume is 20% less than a Model S and 41% less than a Model X. It's not an SUV in my opinion, only a car with more ground clearance than average, sort of like a Subaru Forrester. Charging speed is less than half that of the Tesla as well. Wait, no autopilot? Deal breaker.

Cargo might be less, but interior is just as big, and more premium. For those who value premium more than Autopilot, the I-Pace will be better. Also it supports 100kWh charging, so not less than half. Jaguar wont find it hard to sell all it can make.

 

[Peteski]

Cargo might be less, but interior is just as big, and more premium. For those who value premium more than Autopilot, the I-Pace will be better. Also it supports 100kWh charging, so not less than half. Jaguar wont find it hard to sell all it can make.

More premium? Very subjective indeed. I haven't seen one in the flesh, but other Jags (F-Pace) don't feel all that premium to me. Wife and I hated the F-Pace interior for example. iPace can only be better I presume?

Just as big inside as what? An X or S? I can't believe it's anything like X sized inside. I can literally walk up and down in the middle row with the kids seated and it has 7 seats of course. I can believe the iPace is quite roomy inside though compared to say a Porsche Macan - which I think they picked on as a favourable comparison.

On home charging, I think they've got an issue with their AC charger for Euro use - I'm sure I read that it would limit 120V charging to around 3 kW. I don't think it's a problem in the UK though.

 

[Peteski]

Ok, iPace is 9% longer, 6% wider and 7% taller, but the dimensional relationship of the car itself only deviates 3 % units from the e-Golf, that's why they look so similar from the corner of your eye.

I bet you could apply that to any pair of random modern cars. Seriously the iPace looks nothing like a Golf! Nobody is going to mistake them for each other, ever!

 

[cizUK]

More premium? Very subjective indeed. I haven't seen one in the flesh, but other Jags (F-Pace) don't feel all that premium to me. Wife and I hated the F-Pace interior for example. iPace can only be better I presume?

Just as big inside as what? An X or S? I can't believe it's anything like X sized inside. I can literally walk up and down in the middle row with the kids seated and it has 7 seats of course. I can believe the iPace is quite roomy inside though compared to say a Porsche Macan - which I think they picked on as a favourable comparison.

On home charging, I think they've got an issue with their AC charger for Euro use - I'm sure I read that it would limit 120V charging to around 3 kW. I don't think it's a problem in the UK though.

As big as an S.
It should never be compared to an X, but it's much more similar to the S.
For a fully optioned I-pace, you will get 2-3 options on an S75D

 

[arg]

I think they've got an issue with their AC charger for Euro use - I'm sure I read that it would limit 120V charging to around 3 kW

Note that Europe is (approximately) 230V, the same as the UK.

The issue you are talking about is that the iPace (reportedly) doesn't support three-phase, and in many parts of Europe modest current three-phase is easier/cheaper to obtain than high current single phase for the same power.

A single phase car can still be plugged into a three-phase chargepoint, but will only use one third of the available power. Hence if you had a chargepoint with 16A three-phase, then it would charge a Tesla at a rate of 11kW, but a single phase car at only 3.6kW.

Certainly a disadvantage, may or may not be a show-stopping one.

 

[Peteski]

As big as an S.
It should never be compared to an X, but it's much more similar to the S.
For a fully optioned I-pace, you will get 2-3 options on an S75D

A fully optioned iPace is £84K on the road
PCP £10K deposit, 6.9% APR, total payable £96K!

That's actually considerably more than I'm paying for my fully optioned X 75D!

 

[Peteski]

Note that Europe is (approximately) 230V, the same as the UK.

The issue you are talking about is that the iPace (reportedly) doesn't support three-phase, and in many parts of Europe modest current three-phase is easier/cheaper to obtain than high current single phase for the same power.

A single phase car can still be plugged into a three-phase chargepoint, but will only use one third of the available power. Hence if you had a chargepoint with 16A three-phase, then it would charge a Tesla at a rate of 11kW, but a single phase car at only 3.6kW.

Certainly a disadvantage, may or may not be a show-stopping one.

Yes, that was it.

 

[wooter]

When I look for a new car I usually short-list the technology pieces that I consider vital in the next purchase. This time those included matrix headlights, blind-spot monitoring, 360 camera view and HUD all of which are oddly absent from current Tesla vehicles despite being on other cars for several years now.

I find this an odd list of features... Not to mention that other competing brands, even ICE's, don't have these features. We have a BMW as a second car which came with adaptive headlights in Xenon, but if you buy the facelift now, you're getting fixed LED headlights and no option for matrix LED headlights. However, my Model X does have good working high beam assist and additional corner LED lights, so I do not miss the adaptive xenon headlight feature that much.

Blind spot monitoring is not only standard on a Tesla, but with autopilot your car will even react to objects approaching you in those blind spots.

360 camera view is replaced by distance sensors which measure up to the centimeter, and a HUD is indeed absent. But both roles are replaced by a very well programmed adaptive cruise control in combination with autosteer, and an autopark feature which is fully autonomous, even switching 'gear' to forward and back (unlike other brands where you still need to press the accelerator and switch the automatic gear to go forward or rear).

All in all, I only miss the 360 camera view to park my wheels close to a centimeter from concrete barriers...

But I win a ridiculous effective autopilot feature, which alleviates the burden of driving a car on the highway in busy or quiet traffic. Additionally, the adaptive cruise control is very effective in stop-and-go and busy city traffic on normal roads. This is a serious stress relieving factor in my experience.

I honestly think that if you buy a Jaguar I-Pace, you're selling yourself an inferior product. Yes, you might assume the real leather is better than the 'vegan' leather in a Tesla, and you might think that every Tesla owner is getting shafted with defects and is every week at the service center, but in reality the product is ridiculously good.

Doug DeMuro recently tested a new Rolls Royce Phantom. I'm pretty sure the leather is of the highest quality you can get, but if you look at features and integration, my Model X beats a Phantom. The Phantom is the equivalent of a Vertu smartphone, while the Model X and Model S are the equivalent of the Apple iPhone. The I-Pace is the equivalent of a Samsung S8: it has good features, looks good, but it's still two years behind a Tesla. But it is cheaper. The issue is when the equivalent of Apple's iPhone SE comes available: the Model 3 is cheaper, but ticks a lot of good features from it's bigger siblings.

 

[culverwood]

I wonder why people only quote the fully optioned First Edition prices here. Jag are well known for overpricing their launch cars. The standard vehicle is a much better comparison for the Tesla and as such worth a look.

I would probably still have chosen the S but the i-Pace is a good looking and worthy alternative. Though no free Superchargers, I would only have realised after purchasing a Jag, is a big negative.

 

[McRat]

I find this an odd list of features... Not to mention that other competing brands, even ICE's, don't have these features. We have a BMW as a second car which came with adaptive headlights in Xenon, but if you buy the facelift now, you're getting fixed LED headlights and no option for matrix LED headlights. However, my Model X does have good working high beam assist and additional corner LED lights, so I do not miss the adaptive xenon headlight feature that much.

Blind spot monitoring is not only standard on a Tesla, but with autopilot your car will even react to objects approaching you in those blind spots.

360 camera view is replaced by distance sensors which measure up to the centimeter, and a HUD is indeed absent. But both roles are replaced by a very well programmed adaptive cruise control in combination with autosteer, and an autopark feature which is fully autonomous, even switching 'gear' to forward and back (unlike other brands where you still need to press the accelerator and switch the automatic gear to go forward or rear).

All in all, I only miss the 360 camera view to park my wheels close to a centimeter from concrete barriers...

But I win a ridiculous effective autopilot feature, which alleviates the burden of driving a car on the highway in busy or quiet traffic. Additionally, the adaptive cruise control is very effective in stop-and-go and busy city traffic on normal roads. This is a serious stress relieving factor in my experience.

I honestly think that if you buy a Jaguar I-Pace, you're selling yourself an inferior product. Yes, you might assume the real leather is better than the 'vegan' leather in a Tesla, and you might think that every Tesla owner is getting shafted with defects and is every week at the service center, but in reality the product is ridiculously good.

Doug DeMuro recently tested a new Rolls Royce Phantom. I'm pretty sure the leather is of the highest quality you can get, but if you look at features and integration, my Model X beats a Phantom. The Phantom is the equivalent of a Vertu smartphone, while the Model X and Model S are the equivalent of the Apple iPhone. The I-Pace is the equivalent of a Samsung S8: it has good features, looks good, but it's still two years behind a Tesla. But it is cheaper. The issue is when the equivalent of Apple's iPhone SE comes available: the Model 3 is cheaper, but ticks a lot of good features from it's bigger siblings.

Blindspot monitoring comes on cheap cars today. It's standard on expensive ones.
Digital rearview, bird's-eye view, HUD, reverse AEB, all wheel steering, digital shock absorbers, massive brakes, come on premium cars.
Headlights that aim are iffy IMO. It irritated me after about 1 hour. But sadly they are standard today on many premium cars I prefer third generation thermal imaging systems with HUD support to see around corners.

The problem with directional headlights is they are too slow. You should be looking through a corner when the steering is still straight ahead. The thermal indicator on the HUD will target humans and animals, and just a correct set of headlights works fine since low beam lights the roadsides.

Blind spot monitoring on my cars absolutely sees cars approaching your blind spot. You can see them in the digital 150° rearview mirror, and the side mirror concurrently, the side mirror warning light comes on before they approach your car. By the time they are in your blindspot, you can see them 3 ways, rearview+cluster+side mirror indicator. Redundancy.

The iPace does have Adaptive Cruise Control.and Autosteering. It lacks thermal imaging AFAIK, but it does check to see if you are sleepy or drunk and has true freeway AEB and HUD warnings. The iPace works with your Apple Watch, BTW.

For safety features, it appears to have 9.5 out of 10. For convenience it's up there as well.

We will know when the cars is released .

 

[Peteski]

I wonder why people only quote the fully optioned First Edition prices here. Jag are well known for overpricing their launch cars. The standard vehicle is a much better comparison for the Tesla and as such worth a look.

Try speccing up a "standard" iPace to match your Tesla features and see how pricey it quickly becomes. The First Edition is obviously the most expensive and fully optioned out of the box, but at least the finance on it covers the residual much better than a highly optioned standard car. Play with the configurator and you'll see what I mean. The base spec on the Jag is pretty woeful as you might expect and needs plenty of box ticking to make it respectable - especially if you want all the tech features and premium interior etc.

I'm not saying it's not a viable alternative, but cheaper it most certainly isn't when you factor in finance costs etc. Buying outright is probably the only way to make it cheaper in a like for like spec against a Tesla S or X. There is much more flexibility on your choice of options with an iPace, but that's the only way to keep it cheaper.

I just specced up an HSE and it came to £82K with a crap finance offer to match. No thanks!