Jaguar I-Pace

[electracity]

Don't forget Google Waymo has bought an additional 20,000 units. How many Model X did Tesla make the first year? Jaguar probably needs some time to ramp up production as well. I still think this will sell extremely well.

I still think Tesla offers an overall better EV but don't be so quick to discount the I Pace. It is the first non Tesla EV I've seen that is compelling. Of course I will not buy it over a Tesla but I can see some people do that.

Don't forget that Jaguar was willing to sell 20,000 IPace at a discount to ensure good production volume.

I like the IPace a lot, and I think it will sell well especially in Europe. But the Waymo deal is not necessary a move of confidence. It's also pretty meaningless for regular IPace drivers until Waymo makes an affordable and integrated FSD system for retail vehicles. Although there is perhaps a chance they will loose the oldschool 360 lidar dome before they implement their tech in the IPace.

 

[schonelucht]

I don't get why AC is considered an excuse for diminishing range, let alone there are cars with 'eco' modes killing the AC.

What are we talking about on a day? 1-2kWh?

In a car the size of a Model S/X or an I Pace, AC can easily draw several kW.

 

[Riggald]

Does anyone know of any Model S or X charge curves that are as detailed as the Model 3 one that did the rounds?

 

[Riggald]

Don't forget that Jaguar was willing to sell 20,000 IPace at a discount to ensure good production volume.

I like the IPace a lot, and I think it will sell well especially in Europe. But the Waymo deal is not necessary a move of confidence. It's also pretty meaningless for regular IPace drivers until Waymo makes an affordable and integrated FSD system for retail vehicles. Although there is perhaps a chance they will loose the oldschool 360 lidar dome before they implement their tech in the IPace.

I don't think it's so much lack of confidence as two things:
1) someone offering to give them upwards of $1.2 billion+ US, with very low cost of sales - i.e. it's a good move commercially.
2) building a closer relationship with the leading full-autonomy tech co

 

[electracity]

I don't think it's so much lack of confidence as two things:
1) someone offering to give them upwards of $1.2 billion+ US, with very low cost of sales - i.e. it's a good move commercially.
2) building a closer relationship with the leading full-autonomy tech co

I agree that its probably good move for Jaguar, and saying "lack of confidence" was too strong.

The big question for me is what hardware Waymo plans to install on the IPace. It's an awesome move by Jaguar of the sensors are integrated. But using the current "Waymo Hat" on the IPace arguably diminishes the branding of the vehicle.

No one cares how Waymo mods a Chrysler Pacifica.

 

[MP3Mike]

The big question for me is what hardware Waymo plans to install on the IPace. It's an awesome move by Jaguar of the sensors are integrated. But using the current "Waymo Hat" on the IPace arguably diminishes the branding of the vehicle.

All of the articles having been showing a nice "Waymo Hat".

For example from: Waymo and Jaguar just teamed up to develop a fleet of luxury all-electric self-driving cars

 

[RubberToe]

Waymo receives first U.S. I-Pace deliveries:

Jaguar delivers its first all-electric I-Pace in the US, Waymo gets them for testing

 

[Riggald]

I don't get why AC is considered an excuse for diminishing range, let alone there are cars with 'eco' modes killing the AC.

What are we talking about on a day? 1-2kWh?

That's like 2 to 3 miles of range lost because you want to feel comfortable.

In stop-start traffic, it becomes a very high number of kWh/mile

 

[CameronB]

Waymo receives first U.S. I-Pace deliveries:

Jaguar delivers its first all-electric I-Pace in the US, Waymo gets them for testing

Yep - I'm on the lookout to see one in the Bay Area. Shouldn't take too long...I see the Waymo mini-vans almost daily. But much more excited to see the iPace on the road.

 

[WannabeOwner]

In stop-start traffic, it becomes a very high number of kWh/mile

Wrong metric IMHO. If your journey is stop/start you aren't going to be doing that for 10's of hours on end (if you are stuck in completely stationary traffic even the ICE are going to have trouble, particularly the ones that were planning to "Fill up at the next services" and are already low.). Even if the AirCon is 10 MPH equivalent, and you are only averaging 10 MPH, and that's 100% increase in "energy", the total is still only 20 MPH equivalent, so in an hour you will have used 10% of the battery, instead of 5%.

When I had ICE it had a range of 600 miles. When full. But lots of my ICE journeys started with a range of considerably less than the 220 mile range of my EV. Now I start every day with a range of 200+ miles.

 

[Riggald]

Wrong metric IMHO. If your journey is stop/start you aren't going to be doing that for 10's of hours on end (if you are stuck in completely stationary traffic even the ICE are going to have trouble, particularly the ones that were planning to "Fill up at the next services" and are already low.). Even if the AirCon is 10 MPH equivalent, and you are only averaging 10 MPH, and that's 100% increase in "energy", the total is still only 20 MPH equivalent, so in an hour you will have used 10% of the battery, instead of 5%.

When I had ICE it had a range of 600 miles. When full. But lots of my ICE journeys started with a range of considerably less than the 220 mile range of my EV. Now I start every day with a range of 200+ miles.

In my last long-distance ICE drive, I was stuck stationary on the motorway for over an hour. (it had a range of 280-290 miles, when full)
If I'd been in even a mild-hybrid, I could have left the car to manage the SoC in the 12V system for HVAC, radio, lights etc. As it was, I wasn't able to.

 

[seattlite2004]

 

[techmaven]

The top spec I-Pace has manual steering wheel adjustment?!?

This car doesn’t seem to be significantly bigger than a Model 3. It seems to slot in between the standard range and long range Model 3 with range closer to the standard range Model 3.

 

[seattlite2004]

The top spec I-Pace has manual steering wheel adjustment?!?

This car doesn’t seem to be significantly bigger than a Model 3. It seems to slot in between the standard range and long range Model 3 with range closer to the standard range Model 3.

Yep....but it does have heated steering, HUD, FOB, and it looks like a physical key.

 

[bjornb]

I-pace charging details:

 

[Riggald]

I-pace charging details:
View attachment 317068

Is that from a European market Owner's Handbook?

 

[bjornb]

I found it on a i-pace facebook group. According to the poster it came from a european dealership.

There has been some speculation that even though the i-pace does not support DC charging at higher rate than Tesla (~100kW) it has a charging advantage because it is able to maintain high charging power at a high SOC.
That may still be somewhat true (we will know for sure in a month or so when actual customers start to get their cars..), but when looking at the table above one can see that 0-80% charge takes 40-45 min and 80-100% takes another 42 minutes. With a 90kWh pack that should mean average power at around 30kW from 80-100%, very similar to Tesla.. 90kWh pack charging from 0-80% in 40 mins also similar to Tesla, if it has any charging advantage at all it may be a small one in the 60-80% SOC region, but the data in the charging matrix is insufficient to make that conclusion.

 

[Riggald]

I found it on a i-pace facebook group. According to the poster it came from a european dealership.

There has been some speculation that even though the i-pace does not support DC charging at higher rate than Tesla (~100kW) it has a charging advantage because it is able to maintain high charging power at a high SOC.
That may still be somewhat true (we will know for sure in a month or so when actual customers start to get their cars..), but when looking at the table above one can see that 0-80% charge takes 40-45 min and 80-100% takes another 42 minutes. With a 90kWh pack that should mean average power at around 30kW from 80-100%, very similar to Tesla.. 90kWh pack charging from 0-80% in 40 mins also similar to Tesla, if it has any charging advantage at all it may be a small one in the 60-80% SOC region, but the data in the charging matrix is insufficient to make that conclusion.

The advantage seems to be in the 50%-80 region, looking at the Model 3 curve that's done the rounds.
The Model 3's peaks at 119kW, and the taper sets in at 41%, and drops below 100kW at around 52% - so an average of 90kW to 80% on a 145kW Supercharger.
The Jag seems to average 94kW to 80% on 150kW CCS, despite the 100kW peak, simply because of the lower taper - if that table is to be believed.

One note - that table is WLTP range, so the km/h range added figures are about 25% optimistic compared to Jaguar's claims for realistic range.

The more charge curves that get published, the better, imo. (Like Tesla Battery Charging Data from 801 Cars – About A Better Routeplanner )

Both insideEVs and electrek have confirmed that the Jag's 100kW charge rate limit is software limited, that the current on-board hardware can support higher power charging, if an OTA were to unlock it later.

 

[Riggald]

The advantage seems to be in the 50%-80 region, looking at the Model 3 curve that's done the rounds.
The Model 3's peaks at 119kW, and the taper sets in at 41%, and drops below 100kW at around 52% - so an average of 90kW to 80% on a 145kW Supercharger.
The Jag seems to average 94kW to 80% on 150kW CCS, despite the 100kW peak, simply because of the lower taper - if that table is to be believed. The km/h of range gained on the table are WLTP-km, rather than realistic-km, so about 25% overstated.

The more charge curves that get published, the better, imo.

Both insideEVs and electrek have confirmed that the Jag's 100kW charge rate limit is software limited, that the current on-board hardware can support higher power charging, if an OTA were to unlock it later.

 

[SageBrush]

One note - that table is WLTP range, so the km/h range added figures are about 25% optimistic compared to Jaguar's claims for realistic range.

The car is inefficient compared to a Model 3, so even if the charge rate is comparable the miles/hour is not.