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Jaguar I-Pace
- Thread starter AnxietyRanger
- Start date
What good is autonomous hardware if you don’t have autonomous software to use that hardware
What good is planning for the future when you can't think outside the present
Planning for the future does it have redundant hardware. How’s it going to clean it’s cameras, when they are caked with snow and ice or dirt does it have heaters or washers?
How is that poor? If it is comparably equipped to the base Model S and costs the same as the base Model S, before any dealer discount, I'm not really sure how you would call that poor value for money, that's the same value for money, if you ignore dealer discounts. Add 10% discount and it's actually better value for money, right?
And IMO you actually get a bit more with the Jaguar for 76k, like TACC, or 20" wheels. But less trunk space. So again, depends on what you are looking for in a vehicle. And of course less inches, which is totally important I agree.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
If the Model S is quicker, has more cargo capacity, bigger car and so on ...
... but all depends if you want any of that of course.
Or: the difference in spec means that the comparison wasn't sensible in the first place - Apples and Oranges - made all the more common because not many EVs to compare any EV against ...
But that's Jag's fault, they decided to compare the i-Pace against a Model-X, about as much Chalk and Cheese as exists, other than that they are both EVs - except that they managed to get the i-Pace a couple of tenths quicker 0-60 - so something to Crow about, but I very much doubt that, at those 0-60 times, anyone is going to base a buying decision on that difference ...
I think Jaguar have shot themselves in the foot on that one ... particularly if Tesla does an OTA to lower the 0-60 time of the whole Model-X fleet to match i-Pace!!
Jaguar would have done much better to have compared against the various ICE that they are likely to steal market-share from. There are plenty of those ... particularly targeting punters currently driving Marques for whom good coach building is important; for that sector Jag would be at-least-as-good, so an easy steal with all the EV benefits
But I did think that the strap lines were inspired (maybe someone else has already had them, but they caught my attention at least)
Electrifying performance
Electrifying styling
Jaguar electrifies
But Jaguar has OTA updates, too. And it seems Tesla has already pretty much maxed out their inverter's and motor's tolerances. Jaguar is probably still more conservative, since they lack the real world data.
But anyways how big will the S vs I-Pace difference really be? Noticeably? Probably not. (Actually I think no body would notice the difference between the I-Pace and a X75D, too)
But I get it, Jaguar has put up this video, some of you guys think that's unfair and say the S is even quicker, which might be actually true. And sure, the cars are different, especially in trunk space.
But I still don't get why the I-Pace is poor value for money. It has tons of interior space, a very luxurious interior, good range and power, for a relatively low price.
I can fully understand people saying they prefer the value for money the S gives, or the X, or the 3. Or that they feel those are better cars, but poor value? Does liking Tesla instantly mean I have to hate every other EV? Because that's what it seems like. Some people around here seem to hate other EVs more, than they hate petrol cars.
And at least to me that's weird and I will always argue for an EV, no matter who built it. And this EV is really good, which is probably why it gets so much hate.
I have noticed that too R.S. for years. This us versus everybody else stance I've seen from hopefully a minority of posters sours my want for anything Tesla. I've asked simple questions, offer ideas about small problems or compliment some other EV and the responses are quick. Keeping an open mind about what one buys should never be criticized especially if it fits your wants or needs.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
Indeed, I didn't say otherwise. My point was facetious, sorry for lack of Smiley.
The X is big in terms of being able to stand in a Falcon-wing doorway and put a kid into a child seat.
Like I said, I don't think comparison of i-Pace against MS or, for that matter, MX, is useful.
No, that's not the point. I get that you like Jaguar. My point is that us lot don't get why Jaguar choose to compare against MX ... when they would be much better off comparing against ICE.
It isn't poor value. But in a comparison against MS, specifically, then at same price then there are a lot of differences - and for some/many? people those are significant. But that brings me back to the point I was trying to make : that just means that the comparison wasn't sensible in the first place, other than being EV and possible to spec at "same price", they aren't equivalent..
If you do compare i-Pace and MS at the same price and the MS is faster, has more space, etc. etc. then that is what makes people say that the i-pace is poor value - it only means in THAT comparison, and subjective for THAT PERSON because for that person the extra-space (or whatever) in MS matters. So back to my point: the comparison wasn't valid in the first place because of the significance of the differences.
But surely we don't know that yet? We have a smart looking video, and assumptions that coach-building quality will be good, and the large network of dealers will be better than Tesla, but that's it.
Half a million people put down deposits on M3 on no more information than that, so maybe its enough!!
But Tesla is already out there, its shortcomings are well known, but for me the only assumptions I can make about Jaguar are related to its build quality. I know nothing of Jaguars ability to create a good Battery Management System, negligible battery degradation over time, and I have no idea how well the promise of huge rollout of fast chargers across Europe will actually turn out to deliver in a year's time ...
I'm a Tesla owner, I'm impressed by their achievements, but that's it. I am appalled by how useless their back office and COMMs are, but I would almost certainly buy another Tesla before buying a Version-1 EV from any other marque
I don't think that is the case at all. I realise this is a Tesla fans forum, but it's nice to have an area where enthusiasts can talk about other EVs out there, but there is a serious Tesla fanboy attitude to when it comes comparing against other EVs.
Like you said about Jaguar, why compare it to a Tesla? Why not compare it to everything on the market? A lot of users on this forum do not do that. If it's not a Tesla, its s****.
I agree. I think what Tesla has done is tremendous. But they have a lot of failure in their business too. Jaguar are aiming to electrify their fleet by 2020 (from what I can remember), and this is a great start.
As I said in an earlier post (which someone actually disagreed with and I have no idea why), I think the i-PACE is a good looking car, I much prefer it to the X and 3 (3 mainly because of the internal). I think the pricing is decent. Jaguar has the network. It has the setup. Yes there are some negatives (charging being the main one). But is it bad value for money? No. It is bad value for money vs the S? Like you said, it's down to personal preference of what you want. I just think some people on this forum fail to see that its essentially down to what people are looking for.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
not sure it really answers you question, but in UK (and most of EU too) the price differential of Gasoline / Electricity is significant. For a high mileage driver its huge. Not sure I can make it into $30K over lifetime of vehicle though ...
The first result I got in Google was 36.7 MPG for F-Pace (bearing in mind that a UK Gallon is 10% bigger than a USA gallon) so for a 30K miles p.a. driver that would be £4,453 p.a. for Gas/Diesel.
I charge at work, so I pay nothing for that Electricity (and there is no tax on that benefit in UK) but assuming 300 Wh/mi and Electricity bought on "cheap overnight TOU rate" that would be about £800 p.a., so a saving of £3,600 p.a. on fuel
Other possible plus points:
No congestion charge (e.g. in London £11.50 daily Mon-Fri)
no road tax
government subsidy for purchase of EV (35% of price, Max £4,500)
special provision if purchased as a company-car (accountancy 100% write-off in first year)
and so on.
Diesel cars being banned for most European cities within the next few years
My car flies at altitudes up to 12,000ft. I'm just waiting on the wings and tail to make it safer to do.
A 2018 Model S/X/3 will drive in full autonomous mode today. It will be safer after they install the software though.
Because not even Paris takes that 'global warming' threat seriously. It's just a big vacation on the taxpayer's dime.
Diesel can power fighter jets, tanks, 777's, trains, farm equipment, Class 8 trucks, cargo ships, industrial equipment, generators, cars, trucks, motorcycles with zero GHG. With NO mechanical changes to the vehicle. And do it at 20-80% higher efficiency than the odd mix of unwanted chems that gas has become.
Gasoline? No. Not even close. It's actually a bad joke. "Run everything off corn liquor!!" yeah... try it. Algae actually works as does rapeseed, there is No Such Thing as zero GHG emission gasoline that runs in all engines.
There’s a nice big multi billion dollar lawsuit if they don’t install that software or the hardware isn’t up to scratch
If it's autonomous and, take Elon's example, you summon it from California to New York, how are you going to clean it, if the camera's get dirty and can not be used along the way. You just going to fly to the location and clean the camera's so it can finish it's drive?
Or is the autonomous driving just local driving? So you can get in your 2nd car to drive and clean the camera's.
Also what regulations are going to be needed for autonomous driving? Will the US regulations be the same as Australia or Germany's?
