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Jaguar I-Pace

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...The chances of being paired (and having reduced-charge-rate) is small, let alone the chance of finding all stalls occupied and having to wait.

IMO, a more accurate phrase is "The chances of being paired (and having reduced-charge-rate) is *currently* small".

Tesla has ramped up production faster than it has ramped up Supercharger installation rates, and is planning to increase vehicle production very soon, faster than it plans to increase Supercharger installation rates over the latest announced period.

Tesla's looking to triple Tesla vehicles on the road in the US this year. It's not looking to triple Supercharger availability.

(In the UK it's very different - Model 3s aren't going to get there til 2020/2021, in all probability, so the Supercharger occupancy rates are liable to stay low for at least a couple of years).

90% of UK (and US) CCS has rolled out in the past 12-18 months, so anecdotal experience of CCS even from last year may be very misleading.
 
I would not be convinced without disassembling the pack. There is no top plate, so a bottom plate would have virtually zero effect since the heat is not generated at the pouch fold-over flanges. There would be no way to remove the heat especially since heat rises. The Volt plates are very thin with a racetrack pattern for capillary sized water passages. You would not know they exist without taking the pack apart.
That's what the video that @MP3Mike linked to is... a teardown.

Here's still fame that shows the smaller bottom cooling plate for the "mezzanine" modules in the pack:

BoltCooling.jpg


Elsewhere he uses a lift jig to pull the cell modules out, and there's clearly no coolant plumbing connections... just a thermal pad where they sit on the lower cooling plate.
 
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That's what the video that @MP3Mike linked to is... a teardown.

Here's still fame that shows the smaller bottom cooling plate for the "mezzanine" modules in the pack:
View attachment 306715

Elsewhere he uses a lift jig to pull the cell modules out, and there's clearly no coolant plumbing connections... just a thermal pad where they sit on the lower cooling plate.

Does he pull the cells apart? I could not find that without watching a movie length video. The center of the cells is the hottest spot and if the cells are either insulated, or allowed to touch, that would limit charge and discharge speeds a lot.
 
-The initial 2 EA sites were kind in the middle of nowhere and not on a route leading to anywhere notable.... while that may have been intentional for volume/testing reasons, I'm not sure how many people are going to need a 350KW charger in Chicopee, MA.

Chicopee is 90 miles from Boston, and 145miles from New York City, on a highway between them. Not exactly the middle of no-where, or useless for a road-trip.
 
Does he pull the cells apart? I could not find that without watching a movie length video. The center of the cells is the hottest spot and if the cells are either insulated, or allowed to touch, that would limit charge and discharge speeds a lot.
Not in that video that I recall... but again no plumbing in to the module, so definitely no liquid cooled plates in between.
 
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Chicopee is 90 miles from Boston, and 145miles from New York City, on a highway between them. Not exactly the middle of no-where, or useless for a road-trip.

According to Google maps you have deviate off the route by staying on 91 instead of cutting directly over on 85, adding another ~25 miles to the trip.

But maybe that's what they were going for.
 
According to Google maps you have deviate off the route by staying on 91 instead of cutting directly over on 85, adding another ~25 miles to the trip.

But maybe that's what they were going for.

Yep - if I was them, I'd have placed it at Hartford. I expect Hartford is on the roll-out map.

Edit: I've just discovered a new map, listing sites which are live, and coming soon.

4 sites are now listed as live

Welcome to Electrify America | Locations

Edit: Which is a useless-enough map that I've sent an email of complaint..
 
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According to Google maps you have deviate off the route by staying on 91 instead of cutting directly over on 85, adding another ~25 miles to the trip.

But maybe that's what they were going for.

It sits between where four interstates meet, two north-south crossing an east-west highway, with a fourth highway joining too. And it's right on the highway junction. Seems a pretty decent location, with a Boston-NYC bonus.

the map shows another Boston-NYC location going live soon, on the coast, on I95.
 
"The chances of being paired (and having reduced-charge-rate) is *currently* small".

I agree. Only unknown factor is how much M3 owners will Supercharge, compared to MS / MX users. It might be that M3 owners will be used less for Road Trips (particularly when the small-battery version is manufactured), and M3 owners will have to pay to supercharge ... Might be that the number of M3 owners Supercharging will not be a linear comparison against MS / MX ... time will tell :)
 
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Does he pull the cells apart? I could not find that without watching a movie length video. The center of the cells is the hottest spot and if the cells are either insulated, or allowed to touch, that would limit charge and discharge speeds a lot.

Just found this in an article from 2015 about JLR's battery/hybrid research vehicle:
"...we’re developing real-world technologies,” Newsome says. Indeed. These axial-flux motors are a huge step ahead. So are the electronics and their cooling: instead of using heat sinks into conventional water-based coolant, the coolant is non-conducting, so it can be passed directly through the electronics without shorting it all out. The effectiveness of that cooling means the battery and motors can run at full power - nearly a quarter of a megawatt, don’t forget - for sustained periods

From Top Gear drives the Jaguar C-X75
 
I don't understand this line of thinking.

Currently I can charge at Supercharger at 120-ish kW, or CHAdeMO at 50-ish kW. Yes I had to buy the adaptor, I've used it twice in two years (and public type-2 charging 3 times in two years) whereas I have used used Supercharger 63 times in the same period, so about 3 times a month. But I have the choice ... and where there is no Supercharger I can use CHAdeMO. There are plenty in the UK, but they tend to only be single pumps per site, so currently iPace is also going to be limited to using those 50kW-ish pumps.

In UK the Superchargers [according to Supercharger Info] are:

9 x 2-stalls (Newest was 2015)
6 x 4-stalls (Newest was 2015)
2 x 5-stalls
5 x 6-stalls
18 x 8-stalls
4 x 12-stalls
1 x 16-Stalls

The chances of being paired (and having reduced-charge-rate) is small, let alone the chance of finding all stalls occupied and having to wait. Car Dashboard shows the Status of sites (including # of free stalls) so can bypass a site if busy (and not urgently needing a charge). New sites are no longer being rolled out with few stalls.

I don't see how anyone would compare Supercharger to "Alternative" and find "Alternative" to be anything other than dismal, at present.

Looking on Plugshare (until I got bored, as no country-wide list so had to click on each Pin) there was one site in SE UK which had 3x CSS/SAE (probably shared with CHAdeMO), of the rest (about 25 that I checked) more than half were single-pump, and 7 had a user-reported error/failure (within the last month or so), so chance of being Blocked will be relatively high, and also the potential to find that no pump is working (although next pump won;t be far away, provided you have the right APP / membership).

I've had slow-charging at Supercharger once, and I just moved to a different stall to fix that. I have had zero occurrences of "not working / couldn't charge".

Yes the CHAdeMO fits in my Frunk, along with my UMC cable and also my Type-2 - both of which are "decent length and hefty".

Undoubtedly 150 kW-ish CCS will be rolled out over time, but its going to take time measured in years, not months. Meantime Superchargers continue to be rolled out, further reducing the gaps in the coverage.

I think the Jag looks great, and will appeal to lots of people, existing Jag owners in particular, but away-from-home fast charging is not going to be viable for quite some time.
Local geographical differences in charging options of course. And I really love the superchargers.

But let me be specific on the scenarios.

Better fire up your google maps, (and take a look at street map view also).
Drive Oslo to Loen charging at Vinstra SuC, then stopping to watch some nice waterfalls along the way, like Videfossen (Norway). Stay overnight at Loen, but no chance of charging since all the four 230 V outlets are taken. Put in 3 hours of charging at 2,3 kW during breakfast. Drive to Briksdalsbreen, take a walk and see the Glacier. Go back for dinner, all 2,3kW outlets occupied rest of the night. next morning, rinse and repeat: keep doing local sightseeing and hiking for 2 days.

Then Drive Loen to Hellesylt 80 km and ferry to Geiranger. Now you need to get to Oslo again... How to charge at Geiranger or Hellesylt if you don't have enough SoC to get to Bismo SuC, another 80 km and more than 1000 m elevation? So maybe 2,3kW for 4 hours is just enough - but you wanted to leave after 30 minutes...

Scenario 2:
Go somewhere in Denmark, e.g. Grenå. The old holiday cabin won't support cooking dinner and charging more than 6A @ 230V. You don't have enough juice to get back to Randers SuC which is 60 minutes driving. Family sighseeing eats most of the juice you got overnight.

Scenario X:
Go anywhere a 1/4 SoC distance from any SuC. Have trouble charging at destination. Use most of what you are able to charge at destination. What to do to get back? (spend extra for the Chademo-adapter is not the correct answer)
 
CCS is at 4,200 DCFCs in the EU parts of Europe atm. Ionity are only one of the 350kW roll-out groups. 350kW chargers started going live last November.

What would be *really* useful would be a CCS stats aggregator that distinguished between the various charge rates (50, 150, 175 and 350kW)
Yep and that is exactly the issue with the number of 4200 there. UK for example has ZERO CCS over 50kw, With batteries the size we are talking about here you can't call that "fast" by any standard. In fact I would call it useless. Who wants to spend several hours to recharge his battery on a long range trip?