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Jaguar I-Pace
- Thread starter AnxietyRanger
- Start date
thegruf
Active Member
"Onto the M3, I don’t so much gain speed as accrete it. I learned from Jag’s man that the most efficient speed is 45mph. I donate myself some speedo error and settle on 47 max"
On a 70mph motorway that likely as not is doing 80mph, and speed is where the range gets killed.
and 45mph on a 70mph road is enough to be a liability if not flat out dangerous.
I really want the iPace to succeed and it will, but no need to kid yourself about the reality that range and efficiency is not its forte.
I have to say that this weakness does surprise me, given that other auto manufacturers and even Tesla's more recent M3 are showing efficiency better than 250w/mi. It does seem that Jag made a wrong turn somewhere and went for Tesla level performance over range.
If I was Jag I would absolutely have made decisions to maximise efficiency and range given the patchy state of the charging infrastructure outside Tesla's superchargers. People would happily buy the iPace if it was not as fast as a Tesla, but dodgy range together with patchy charging - well I'm not so sure.
Reduced it's market to trendy commuterville I suspect.
Either that, or as I have said before, Jag should really sign up to the Tesla Supercharger network as this is their only real defence they have against the German cartel.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I think that the Journos are driving around in pre-production models, so there may well be room for software improvements.
As the majority of the comments on the TopGear article say, it was a complete waste of time. People aren't interested in hearing that the WLTP test is rubbish, the Journo should have just driven and charged, and reported what the outcome was.
And maybe also reported that Jag say that the production model is expected to achieve X% of WLTP or somesuch
In the coches.net range test the Leaf only got 80% of WLTP, everything else was 90% - 105% except Kia Soul at 118% ...
... and Jag at 65%
I don't know how WLTP is done, but seems likely to me that the cars loaned for review are not configured the same as had been for the WLTP test (and how presumably Production cars will be)
As the majority of the comments on the TopGear article say, it was a complete waste of time. People aren't interested in hearing that the WLTP test is rubbish, the Journo should have just driven and charged, and reported what the outcome was.
And maybe also reported that Jag say that the production model is expected to achieve X% of WLTP or somesuch
In the coches.net range test the Leaf only got 80% of WLTP, everything else was 90% - 105% except Kia Soul at 118% ...
... and Jag at 65%
I don't know how WLTP is done, but seems likely to me that the cars loaned for review are not configured the same as had been for the WLTP test (and how presumably Production cars will be)
So I have test driven it finally. 35 minutes, mostly city/local highway, with a sales guy - like the 2013 rides in Tesla. I guess we drove 10 kms, so I do not want to conclude on the consumption and range - we started at 98%,range 401 km and finished at range 383 kms. That is pretty similar to my S90D in similar conditions and driving style, but with a lower starting point - my S90D has 438 km rated at 100. This was a production HSE with 20" but with the old, pre-production software. No option to test charging as next customer was waiting.
Other impressions: tire noise at low speeds (up to 80 km/h) similar. Was not able to test high speed wind noise. Suspension feels more sensitive with a bit more travel, very little body roll. Harder stuffed seats compromise the more comfy suspension, but overall a better suspension setup (a tad more comfy) than S90D. Seems more damped/settled and less body torsion, at poor surfaces. (I have "the front susp rattle" on my S). More direct steering feel, but not necessary different to drive fast in bends. Accelerator has a little more resistance to it, and the amperes are released later in the accelerator travel - feels like the same performance, maybe the Jag feels slower. Interior build quality of course really good, but the infotainment not in the same class. Surround stereo system really nice. Seat is a bit higher from the floor which I like - the S is really low. HUD is good, but not anything I miss in the S - I love the S IC. The TACC with "Steering assist" works on par with AP2 2017.53 and was surprisingly good, but operating it was clumsy. Rear visibility in the mirror is a joke, and the backup camera shows a picture similar to a larger smartphone. And why the stupid On/off-button... But a good electric car on par with my S. Behind on some areas, in front on others.
Other impressions: tire noise at low speeds (up to 80 km/h) similar. Was not able to test high speed wind noise. Suspension feels more sensitive with a bit more travel, very little body roll. Harder stuffed seats compromise the more comfy suspension, but overall a better suspension setup (a tad more comfy) than S90D. Seems more damped/settled and less body torsion, at poor surfaces. (I have "the front susp rattle" on my S). More direct steering feel, but not necessary different to drive fast in bends. Accelerator has a little more resistance to it, and the amperes are released later in the accelerator travel - feels like the same performance, maybe the Jag feels slower. Interior build quality of course really good, but the infotainment not in the same class. Surround stereo system really nice. Seat is a bit higher from the floor which I like - the S is really low. HUD is good, but not anything I miss in the S - I love the S IC. The TACC with "Steering assist" works on par with AP2 2017.53 and was surprisingly good, but operating it was clumsy. Rear visibility in the mirror is a joke, and the backup camera shows a picture similar to a larger smartphone. And why the stupid On/off-button... But a good electric car on par with my S. Behind on some areas, in front on others.
Blastphemy
Member
My wife and I were able to see the touring I-PACE prototype this past weekend, and were allowed to turn it on and play with the sound system, A/C, buttons, etc, but weren't able to drive it.
As someone who has a Tesla Model X, I can unequivocally say that the I-PACE is a lot smaller. I can seat seven in my Model X, but five is the most in the I-PACE, and that fifth person is not going to be happy. Leg room in the second row can be tight depending on the position of the front seats. Rear storage is flat in the I-PACE, whereas the Model X has a deep well underneath for additional items. The I-PACE's 2nd row does fold forward if necessary. Getting in and out of the I-PACE requires ducking, which the Model X does not.
Size aside, I found the I-PACE interior to be worlds more luxurious than the Model X. All controls were intuitive at first use (aside from the A/C dials, but once I understood how they worked, they made sense).
The I-PACE also looks a lot sexier on the outside, but that design does impact the coefficient of drag and efficiency of the I-PACE. (My Model X P90D gets about 250 miles fully charged, and the I-PACE is rated at 240 miles with the same size battery; but the I-PACE is a smaller, lower vehicle, so it should be well into the high 200s.)
A/C was robust, cooled front seats were nice (although I wasn't 100% convinced the seat back is cooled like the seat bottom), and the Meridian sound system was excellent. Maybe not Cadillac Panaray or Lexus Mark Levinson nice, but it's a quality system, and much better than Tesla's. However, no matter how hard he tried, the salesperson could not get the I-PACE to pull in the equivalent HD station of any local FM station, so I can't confirm whether the I-PACE has HD radio compatibility.
Some items the salesperson couldn't reconcile were whether the I-PACE gets Apple CarPlay and Android Auto (different answers depending on who you ask, and I couldn't find a definitive answer on Jaguar's website). But for sure the Model X doesn't have either. You can't even plug in an iPhone via USB and play it in a Tesla - it's all Bluetooth, which impacts the fidelity negatively. However, Teslas can play FLAC files natively off of a USB thumb drive, and the salesperson couldn't tell me if the Jaguar could.
Also, Jaguar doesn't appear to have an equivalent "Auto Pilot" system like Tesla. The salesperson was trying to tell me that Lane Keep Assist and Adaptive Cruise Control combined to offer the equivalent, and I laughed in his face. Mind you, the website videos on Jaguar talk about a "Steer Assist" feature that sounds more Auto Pilot-like, but there doesn't appear to be a way to order it, so it could be vaporware.
The I-PACE will have over-the-air software updates capability. Of course, so do newer Cadillacs, and I've yet to see a single OTA software update from them! (Cadillac is the worst when it comes to CUE infotainment updates.) So just because the I-PACE has it doesn't mean it'll get used.
That's all I've got for now. Hopefully Jaguar will call me to drive one soon so I can report back on that.
As someone who has a Tesla Model X, I can unequivocally say that the I-PACE is a lot smaller. I can seat seven in my Model X, but five is the most in the I-PACE, and that fifth person is not going to be happy. Leg room in the second row can be tight depending on the position of the front seats. Rear storage is flat in the I-PACE, whereas the Model X has a deep well underneath for additional items. The I-PACE's 2nd row does fold forward if necessary. Getting in and out of the I-PACE requires ducking, which the Model X does not.
Size aside, I found the I-PACE interior to be worlds more luxurious than the Model X. All controls were intuitive at first use (aside from the A/C dials, but once I understood how they worked, they made sense).
The I-PACE also looks a lot sexier on the outside, but that design does impact the coefficient of drag and efficiency of the I-PACE. (My Model X P90D gets about 250 miles fully charged, and the I-PACE is rated at 240 miles with the same size battery; but the I-PACE is a smaller, lower vehicle, so it should be well into the high 200s.)
A/C was robust, cooled front seats were nice (although I wasn't 100% convinced the seat back is cooled like the seat bottom), and the Meridian sound system was excellent. Maybe not Cadillac Panaray or Lexus Mark Levinson nice, but it's a quality system, and much better than Tesla's. However, no matter how hard he tried, the salesperson could not get the I-PACE to pull in the equivalent HD station of any local FM station, so I can't confirm whether the I-PACE has HD radio compatibility.
Some items the salesperson couldn't reconcile were whether the I-PACE gets Apple CarPlay and Android Auto (different answers depending on who you ask, and I couldn't find a definitive answer on Jaguar's website). But for sure the Model X doesn't have either. You can't even plug in an iPhone via USB and play it in a Tesla - it's all Bluetooth, which impacts the fidelity negatively. However, Teslas can play FLAC files natively off of a USB thumb drive, and the salesperson couldn't tell me if the Jaguar could.
Also, Jaguar doesn't appear to have an equivalent "Auto Pilot" system like Tesla. The salesperson was trying to tell me that Lane Keep Assist and Adaptive Cruise Control combined to offer the equivalent, and I laughed in his face. Mind you, the website videos on Jaguar talk about a "Steer Assist" feature that sounds more Auto Pilot-like, but there doesn't appear to be a way to order it, so it could be vaporware.
The I-PACE will have over-the-air software updates capability. Of course, so do newer Cadillacs, and I've yet to see a single OTA software update from them! (Cadillac is the worst when it comes to CUE infotainment updates.) So just because the I-PACE has it doesn't mean it'll get used.
That's all I've got for now. Hopefully Jaguar will call me to drive one soon so I can report back on that.
Ormond
Endless Peacock
Do you also have a Cadillac? I would like to try a CT6 with Super Cruise.
One of the reasons I don't want a Mercedes again is that you had to take your car in to the dealership for map updates. The local dealership tried to charge me $400 for the free update even after I sent them a link to MBUSA. I had to call Mercedes Corporate. I sure don't miss franchise dealership hassles. I would be wary of getting the Jaguar because the dealership isn't local.
Blastphemy
Member
I have the Cadillac CT6 Plug-in, which due to the placement of the batteries behind the 2nd row, doesn't have the ability to include SuperCruise (because that's where the hardware goes in ICE CT6s). The plug-in CT6 also can't have the Panaray sound system or magnetic ride control because of this. Very stupid design. I wouldn't recommend the CT6 plug-in to anyone. I'm actually trying to get rid of mine at the moment.
Blastphemy
Member
So we ordered an I-Pace to replace the Model S P85 we'll have had for over 4.5 years by the time the Jag arrives. We live in the Netherlands, so it was attractive from a taxation point to have the car before YE 2018 - so that made the Model 3 fall off the list. And a new S or X is way more expensive and meanwhile an old model, but also: Tesla service has seriously deteriorated in the past 18 months over here, to the point where it is now behind the traditional premium brands rather than miles ahead. So, despite concerns over battery tech (I am hopeful that deterioration will be ok, or better than expected as with the S), quick charging on long drives (there are corridors of 100 KW+ chargers coming online in western Europe, so hopeful again, comparable to the 2014 supercharger situation) and infotainment (I am sure going to miss the large central screen - so intuitive - and excellent navigation), we took the plunge. And now really looking forward to our new car - scheduled for delivery in December.
When (if?) the Model 3P makes its debut on our shores, I will certainly look into it again. I still like Tesla a lot, but am a little worried that scaling up is not working too well for the company (despite being necessary for them to survive... It's a conundrum).
When (if?) the Model 3P makes its debut on our shores, I will certainly look into it again. I still like Tesla a lot, but am a little worried that scaling up is not working too well for the company (despite being necessary for them to survive... It's a conundrum).
How will your purchase be impacted if they miss the delivery date by say a month and you get it in January instead?
I think Jaguar call the suite of driver assist measures "In Control Drive".
But it's adaptive Cruise, Lane-sensing, plus lane-keep assist with self-steer, with Mobileye. Iirc, you can purchase them individually, rather than having to buy an all or nothing package.
Not good - this would mean that my personal taxes paid will increase by over 5300 euros per year in the coming 5 years. Jaguar NL is acutely aware of this issue: they have guaranteed delivery in 2018 on paper (otherwise I have the right to cancel my order) and have recently confirmed my production and delivery date (with two weeks to spare before year end).
Jigglypuff
Member
Ormond
Endless Peacock
New article on the Jaguar. You can configure a loaded one for $87,000. I built a First Edition model. Range?
Watch out, Tesla, Jaguar's I-Pace is prowling for your customers
Watch out, Tesla, Jaguar's I-Pace is prowling for your customers
Merrill
Merrill
Until Tesla came along I was a Jaguar long time customer going back to 1970, so love the cars they made even before Ford upped the reliability. But Tesla still has the upper hand with the supercharging infrastructure, have not seen the interior of the ipace but if it has buttons and knobs I’m not interested.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
It does, and I'm not interested either. I want an interface that can change during teh lifetime of the car as new opportunities allow adding and improvement of features.
The 3-slider graphic equaliser on my Tesla was improved to a 5-slider; Chill mode button was added ... and so on ... not so easy to do with knobs!
